Skid steer and grapple questions.......

bwktreeserv

bwktreeserv

Location
Eugene, OR USA!
Ok, here is what i've got ..... I own a 2004 ASV RC-30 tracked skid steer. As you all know this is a tiny sit down skid but still has great power. It is however 46" wide. Won;t fit through a standard gate but will fit through fence posts with one panel removed. I am about to get a grapple for it in and am wondering weather to go with a standard BMG mini grapple or if there is a slightly bigger one I don't know about. Remember that the ASV rc-30 only has one set of aux hydraulics. The next question is i now have the opportunity to get a Vermeer SX-600 i think it is. Tracked, diesel mini with only 365 hrs on it, through my local vermeer dealer, and with new tracks. The price is right after I potentially sold or traded in the ASV. Sort of...I just got the machine because it was a deal I couldn't pass up. I know the mini is more applicable to everyday backyard residential tree work but the ASV is a great machine to. Obviously on the min i would go BMG but I don;t know if there are other options for the RC-30. Thanks in advance, look forward to hearing peoples thoughts.

Side note... the ASV gets hauled in a 6'x12' 12K GVWR dump trailer. If I got the mini I could fit the mini and my 252 stump grinder in the same trailer.

Other side note.... I swore I would never buy another Vermeer product. However my local Vermeer dealer has some real good guys and a great tech.

Thanks! -BEN
 
The Vermeer mini is a pretty good machine. I have heard a few small issues about them, but nothing major. If you have a good relationship with your dealer that makes owning a vermeer a lot easier IMO.
I used to own a John Deere 250 skid steer. machine was a beast, could pick up a good amount of weight. That is why I bought it, I was logging my property to build my house and wanted something to move wood around. I then decided to use it for tree work. It was just far too big for me to efficiently use in the average persons backyard.
I went out recently and purchased a toro dingo with a BMG. That combo has been amazing. I know you like your asv, but what you loose in the ability to pick in weight you gain in maneuverability, access to some really hard to get at trees, the ease of feeding a chipper and the ease of not having to get in and out of a skid steer all day. The mini affords you the ability to actually help out with the crew, and not be stuck in a machine all day. Getting in and out of a skid steer all day is a pain compared to a mini where you just hop on and go. I built a saw scabbard and carry my saw right on the mini. I did a large commercial job where I ran around with the mini cutting trees and stacking them in piles to be chipped at a later time. It was just really efficient.
The thing that makes running a mini with tree care so great is, we can cut the trees smaller if we have to be within our lift capacity.
You can see my opinion would be to purchase the minie, you will not be disappointed. And like you mentioned, being able to haul it around with a smaller trailer and vehicle is a good pro as well.
 
I sell both in my online store and I sell for Dave as well (dealer for Branch Manager and dealer rep for Top Notch Equipment).

The regular BMG is fine for the RC30 capacity wise, but the HD BMG would work also, it's just heavier.

The PT30 uses a different attachment plate... I think it's similar to the MT50/Gehl AL140 but I'll have to check. We have the BMG with the 140/MT plate ready.

You could run a hydraulic rotating grapple on your PT30, but again, you're getting heavier on a limited/compact machine.

I would consider the Avant line up compared to the mini. The Avant 420 out lifts the 600 series Vermeer as well as lifting considerably higher. Right now, the 420 doesn't fit through a 36" gate, but I'm going to be working on that soon. I'm also going to be shooting comparison videos of the Gehl AL140, Boxer 532, and the Avant 420... maybe this week. The Boxer 532 should outfit the 420 while still fitting through a 3' gate.
 
Lumberjack said:
I sell both in my online store and I sell for Dave as well (dealer for Branch Manager and dealer rep for Top Notch Equipment).

The regular BMG is fine for the RC30 capacity wise, but the HD BMG would work also, it's just heavier.

The PT30 uses a different attachment plate... I think it's similar to the MT50/Gehl AL140 but I'll have to check. We have the BMG with the 140/MT plate ready.

You could run a hydraulic rotating grapple on your PT30, but again, you're getting heavier on a limited/compact machine.

I would consider the Avant line up compared to the mini. The Avant 420 out lifts the 600 series Vermeer as well as lifting considerably higher. Right now, the 420 doesn't fit through a 36" gate, but I'm going to be working on that soon. I'm also going to be shooting comparison videos of the Gehl AL140, Boxer 532, and the Avant 420... maybe this week. The Boxer 532 should outfit the 420 while still fitting through a 3' gate.
Click to expand...

One must consider the important of tracks as well. I have never seen an avant work in the woods, do you have any videos of driving one into the woods and picking up logs and branches? Thats one problem I found with the skid steer is the tires would just sink into the forest floor and you would get stuck. The avant line-up looks like its more suited for level yards and yards with a harder surface. Again, just asking as I have never operated one or seen one in the woods. I have found a mini with tracks works great in the woods of new england.
 
JTtreecare said:
Rayns equipment you'll be very happy they make a grapple to fit very skidsteer
Click to expand...
Ryans are really heavy duty!! When I owned my skid steer I always wanted one of those. I went with the frost bite grapple instead because it was cheaper.

DSCN3763.webp
 
Rayns equipment has great customer support also. They are worth the money. I had a grapple bucket before and I would never go back! I bought the 6072 and I love the grapple
 
JTtreecare said:
Rayns equipment has great customer support also. They are worth the money. I had a grapple bucket before and I would never go back! I bought the 6072 and I love the grapple
Click to expand...

Hey I am trying to persuade him towards a mini:) Does ryan's equipment make one for a mini skid?
 
Yes they do. I've been trying to become a dealer for Ryan's for about a year. I thought we (Top Notch) were a dealer as they sent us dealer pricing information. I call to place an order and I'm told that we aren't really a dealer and they offer me list price (~$13k). I had a deal lined up at TCIA for a 4860... walked over and talked to Don directly, and I still couldn't get a dang picture of the grapple so the guy could let of his money and stick it in their pocket. I personally was going to buy two attachments worth about $25k. Very frustrating.

The OP mentioned a residential machine, not a forestry machine. Tracks suck for turning on grass. Minis suck at ground speed comparatively. The smallest Avant with the smallest tires has 33% more ground clearance than the Vermeer 600, although neither is going to be a skidder. Tracks do offer advantages in tractive effort and sometimes in soft terrain. I operate and sell both wheeled and tracked loaders, they both have their place.

Still, the woods action starts around 2:45:

If the OP is wanting a hydraulic rotating grapple, Branch manager and Ryan's both sell a suitable offerings in a range of sizes. Adds weight and cost.
 
Hahaha! Other machines are definitely not on the table right now. Some good points brought up though. So, say I stay with the ASV RC-30, somebody said earlier that both the BMG (mini) and the BMG HD will work with it. Am I actually really gaining if I go with the HD as it adds so much more weight? Yes IT can carry more, but how much more can my machine carry with IT on? Follow me? I'll have to find out more specifics about the vermeer. I think it was the SX but was there not also a TX 600 or 650? Ill check it out tomorrow, drive it, and report back. Thanks again guys for all the help! Keep em coming! -BEN
 
You will lose lifting capacity with the HD, due to the added weight of the attachment. The squeeze strength of the HD is double that of the regular BMG. If I were choosing, I'm pretty sure I would go with the regular BMG.

Use discount code "Buzz" for the forum discount on my store.
 
We run a Ryan's grapple on our Vermeer s800tx. In some circumstances, reaching way out, down over a bank things like that the weight of the grapple is too much. But more times than not it's awesome. The ability to spin hydraulicly when approaching chipper or weaving through fences is a huge plus for us. I have no idea if the 600 would handle it, it's probably double the weight of the Vermeer grapple. Maybe more? Well that's my two cents I'll post a picture of it if I can find one. Good luck with your decision!
 
From Ritchiespecs.com

ASV
Width 3.9
Operating Load 800 lb
Tipping Load 1600 lb


From Vermeer
Width 36"
Operating Capacity 600lb
Tipping Load 1200lb

If it were me, I would vouch for the mini Vermeer with a BMG between the two machines. The BMG is the way to go, might be nice to also have a bucket or something else to help with fine clean up. IMO I don't think the ASV's performance (on paper) would justify keeping it over the mini for tree work alone. You're not loosing too much lifting capacity, and it will get into much smaller areas. If it were a lot bigger tracked loader, I'd have a hard time getting rid of it since they're so versatile. I also have to imagine the ASV track and suspension parts cost a lot more to maintain and replace than the Vermeer mini.

If you use the ASV for other work such as grading, snow removal, etc then the decision to get rid of it might be a little more difficult. You could always rent a 8,000-12,000 pound tracked loader for larger projects if needed. Good luck with your purchase!
 
KYAPLE said:
We run a Ryan's grapple on our Vermeer s800tx. In some circumstances, reaching way out, down over a bank things like that the weight of the grapple is too much. But more times than not it's awesome. The ability to spin hydraulicly when approaching chipper or weaving through fences is a huge plus for us. I have no idea if the 600 would handle it, it's probably double the weight of the Vermeer grapple. Maybe more? Well that's my two cents I'll post a picture of it if I can find one. Good luck with your decision!
Click to expand...

Disclaimer I make Branch Manager grapples
Facts, Vermeers 40"? Grapple's mount design does not have a universal joint to allow it to feed a chipper efficiently, the design is wrong for our day to day tree forwarding operations. Ryans Mini Bypass grapple only opens to 40", BMG opens to 53". BMG is only mini grapple with built in Rope Bollard, Receiver Hitch, and NEW this year saw transport Scabbards.

I strongly disagree for an absolute need for a powered rotator to weave through backyards or feed a chipper you actually have another function to manage when you have a powered rotation. The non powered universal joint weaves through and feeds the chipper much easier than running a valve to accomplish the same action.
Watch this Video www.youtube.com/watch?v=rthC-JAAz3Y
The only + it gives you is exact placement on the pile when picking up and maybe a little better placement when loading logs. Placement with non powered is pretty simple once you get get a couple hours on it. These facts in my mind negate the extra cost, weight, future maintenance, of powered rotators. I know I could give you the names of 100's of tree guys who run my BMG who agree with that statement.
(I do believe on Big Skids powered rotation is very helpful to keep the lawn skooch factor down).

Also Branch Manager has the only Clam shell and 6' Rake option available of any Mini Grapple. I have had more than one Tree Guy report to me they would buy my grapple just for the clam-shells, they are so happy with them. Watch these 2 videos www.youtube.com/watch?v=trXeni32VNk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVhQ7ONW87A

BMGbollardsml.webp BMAbollard.webpTNE1001Reciever.webpTNE1001RecievONdingo.webp BMGtrlerChip.webp saw scabbaard cut2.webpsaw scabbaard cut3.webp TNE1001Pusher.webp . rake25.webp Scoops cut.webp
 
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I agree that once you get good at the grapple, a powerless swivel is very nice. To each his own I guess. I have found a very good way of using it and it does tract really good nice into a chipper.
 
I own a BMG for my mini and an Implemax for my skidsteer. The Implemax I have been operating since 2002. No need for a hydraulic rotator.
 
climbhightree said:
No longer a round pipe into a square hole?...
Click to expand...


That was the prototype design. The current version for the BMG is a round tube going inside the BMG. The HD BMG is the same, with two metal plates welded to the round tube.

The seam inside the square tubing on the BMG prevents using commonly available square tubing to build the male portion of the receiver.
 
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