Saw upgrades

Keith,
I got my Magnum Z muffler direct from a Stihl Apps. guy in Conn. I'll bet that any Stihl dealer could find it. If not, I'll ask around at TCI.

Greg, this is also the reason that I would think that it would be leagle as well. The dealer wouldn't sell these if they were outlawed?
confused.gif
 
Mark, does that muffler have dual ports? I believe the 066 muffler will fit, and the old magnum one has dual ports. However, even those openings do not total 1.2-1.5 times the exhaust port size,( of an 066 anyhow) so can be opened more for optimum horsepower.

But there is no real reason to buy another muffler, Just mod them yourself or have Ken Dunn do it for 30-50$.

Keith, according to Ken, muffler mods alone, if done correctly, and depending on the saw, can add over 20% in power. Best bang for the buck!!

Legal, who cares. The EPA has no jurisdiction over what you do to your own saws.

I'l dig up a photo of how Ken's mods look and post it.

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Roger Barnett ]
 
Blabberny and others-
If you just want to see for yourself if there is a difference, you can start with very minor adjustments on your own. Every saw muffler has a screen over the exhaust outlet, and the actual outlet hole is typically too small (A lot are only 3/8" or smaller). After removing the muffler from the saw, remove the screen and drill or file the outlet hole larger. You can go as large as 1.25X the exhaust port size if you have room. Clean all shavings thoroughly and replace the screen. Put the muffler back on and try it out. Minor carb adjustment MAY be necessary, but not always.
I worked on my 026 muffler 3 different times, taking a little more each time. Finally got it cranking pretty good now.

If this is too mechanical for you, try Walker's saw shop online. But if you can clean your own air filters, change your own spark plugs and sprockets, and sharpen your own chain then you can open the exhaust a little. It isn't rocket science.
cool.gif
 
Here's the best info yet, from ken:

muffler mods

when we first started modifing mufflers we used two round holes 5/8 inch in the front of the mufflers, then we used two pipes in the front or sides depending on the muffler. then the hot set up was two pipes cut on a 45 degree slant inside the muffler. all these methods work if the size of the extra port or tubes are the proper size. if you get the area of the extra port too big power will fall off . when we made the extra port to big or added a third port we would lose cutting speed.also when the ports are the proper size adding your screens does not reduce the power. on the 372-385 muffler its also easier to put the extra port in the brace and muffler. you should run screens also to keep sparks, hot carbon , from flying out and to keep debris from working back into the muffler and motor. and the last reason is the forestry doesn't think its modified when done with the port in front and a screen in place. out here in cal. they will send a faller home if they see 2 or 3 pipes sticking out of your muffler.

Ken
kdhotsaw@hotmail.com
 
On a rain day, I took my 020 and 046 apart and went to work with my Dremel. Nothing better to do that day I guess. I found that the intake and exhaust ports to the cylinder did not match up too well. Along with the muffler mod, which I did before I started them new, the matching of the ports helped dramatically. Coming from a motocross backround, I cleaned up the intake and exhaust ports on the cylinder also. There are a couple of burrs left from the casting process. The faster gases get in and out of the motor equal more horsepower. My saws absolutely rip!!
 
Mark, you are probably right. I was just curious. Because I do remember when Sthil had Hi-low carbs and were leagal in some states and not in Cali, untill just recently again.Thats why I was asking about the Mufflers.Cali can be a little weird on the omissions.

Thanks
Greg
 
Today I rooted around in the dead saw graveyard and found that I have a muffler for a Husky 335 and 350. I'm going to tube them and see what ahappens. Before I do, I'll make a few test cuts so that I have a before and after comparison. I took the screen out of my Jony 2170 and it seemed to help. The test today wasn't really that tough though. I had a good chain on and was blocking up box elder. It seemed to have a little more snort and not too loud. Tubes will change that, I know...say What?

Tom
 
For any of you guys interested in going all the way and getting saws modified, here's some cutting times. Not real accurate, but close:

9 inch fresh cut cherry

20 inch bar, .325 full chisel,

Husky 346, brand new, stock- 9 seconds
" 346, Greffardized, 6 seconds, about 4 months old

Shindaiwa 488, just Greffardized, a tad over 6 seconds..

Very impressive performance by the 488, as the 346 dyno gains are around 50% over stock, and with its closed port design, should modify with larger gains than the Shindaiwa.

These are great times, as my Walkerized 372, with 28 inch bar and full chisel, semi-skip, square filed, rakers high, was just under 5 seconds.

Walker's does good work, but Dennis Greffard's work is more thorough.

I'll do more tests soon, in bigger wood, and with a stopwatch.

The 488 is 1/2 lb lighter than the 346, or 026, and a very well built long lasting saw.
 
Hey does anyone have any Jonsred 361's? The older model from the mid to late 80's. I have one that I had gotten when I was 14 for my birthday and it still runs pretty good. I would just like to have a few more for parts or just fix them up. I ran it few weeks ago and what a difference, loud as ever and vibration is something you feel for hours after you put it down. But for a little saw they can rip.
 
Heres a little tip. Try running model airplane fuel with 20%nitro through your saw. It has plenty of lubrication and does seem to hurt it. It will really scream.
 
Well, I took off my muffler today to check things out (and I never worked so hard to pull six bolts in my life). I took out the spark arrestor and I'm planning to see if I can enlarge the exhaust opening (but it's hard to reach behind welded pieces so I'm not sure how easy it will be).

Still can't find the magnum z though. I called every stihl dealer in town and they don't even know what I'm talking about. anyone know where I can mail-order?

keith
 
2 days ago I opened the muffler on my 044 to twice the size it was from the fact. the saw runs great and sounds better too. I have a Poulan Pro330 that I also opened -actually just removed the extensive internal baffles and it runs like a new saw. I am going to go back and drill a hole in the muffler of that saw and expect to get an even better gain out of that. Ahhh the trouble you can cause with a dremmel tool....

Check out walkerssawshop.com you can order a mod muffler from them for about $30, with the fancy little pipes, or just go nuts with a dremmel and drill yourself.

Greg --not the fool
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Greg:
2 days ago I opened the muffler on my 044 to twice the size it was from the fact. the saw runs great and sounds better too. I have a Poulan Pro330 that I also opened -actually just removed the extensive internal baffles and it runs like a new saw. I am going to go back and drill a hole in the muffler of that saw and expect to get an even better gain out of that. Ahhh the trouble you can cause with a dremmel tool....

Greg --not the fool<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glad to hear it, Greg. Many people run saws all their lives and never realize what a little thing like muffler restrictions can do to hurt their saws. It's so simple that I can guarantee that I will never own a saw with a stock, untouched muffler ever again.

I just threw a set of rings in an old Stihl 025 that I bought used about 12 years ago. With the muffler mods I did last year it will outcut a new stock 026! Not bad for a 15+ year old 'homeowner' saw.
 
Hearing about grinding away at the exhaust ports brings up a question. I have die grinders that are itching for some new tasks.
If I start to go at the burrs, how do you keep the debris from staying inside the cylinder?

Do you just use compressed air to blast out the debris? I have seen how debris will stick in the corners of enclosed spaces because of the eddying effect.

Do you use any kind of solvent to wash out the cylinder? Or, do you have a vacuum nozzle in there to suck up the debris just like at the dentist?

I see that I have to drill out the spot welds on the mufflers in order to open up the exhaust. I did notice that the screen was out of the muffler from the 335 and I never removed it before the saw died. Wonder where it went...

Tom
 
Tom, your best bet is to remove the muffler before creating any shavings. Compressed air does a good job of blowing away the shavings before remounting the muffler. A poor second choice would be to raise the piston to TDC and try to keep junk away from the cylinder. Final cleaning with a Q-tip and alcohol to pick out the debris before it falls in the cylinder. (I did this when mating the muffler port with the exhaust port)

Idunno what to tell you on the welded mufflers. All my saws have two piece mufflers held together with a screw or two. Easy access to disassemble for cleaning or mods.
 
Oops, didn't ask the right question
smile.gif


The muffler will come off for mods, no big deal. What about cleaning up the cylinder port? I'm not interested in pulling the head off to do any grinding.

Tom
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Greg:
Check out walkerssawshop.com you can order a mod muffler from them for about $30, with the fancy little pipes, or just go nuts with a dremmel and drill yourself.

Greg --not the fool[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thx, Greg--I found them with that address. Seeing that they just modify the stock muffler, maybe I'll go it alone after all.

keith
 
This was just posted on another board and I have no reason to doubt it's validity:

Stihl 260 muffler mod data, temp, sound level and preformance
Here is the data I measured during a muffler modification on my 260.

Saw is was new 3-4 tanks of gas, sharp .325 Stihl RS chain on a 16" bar.

Tempratures were measured with a digital lazer spot infared sensor. measuements were taken from the hottest area on the front of the muffler cover, and the hottest exposed area of the head which seemed to be just below the cooling fins on the bar side. Outside air temperature 5 degrees C.

Sound levels were measured using a calibrated digital sound meter, peak measurments were taken at 10 feet directly in front of the saw with both the saw and meter 3' above the ground (open field).

Cut times were 3 cut averages measured by stop watch on a 12" dry spruce.


The muffler modification entailed 5 steps.

1 stock
2 stock muffler redrill existing outlet to 7/16 and add one 7/16 hole
3 add one more 7/16 hole
4 join 3 holes and square opening to 7/16 x 1.5 inch plus file back and open deflector angle.
5 match exaust port to muffler

The test consisted of the folowing steps

1 measure temp with saw cold roughly 7 degrees C
2 start and idle saw for 2 min monitor temp until stable
3 measure idle sound level
4 cycle saw to full RPM 5 times and record max sound and rpm
5 cycle saw between idle and full rpm for 1 min and measure temp
6 cut 3 disks and measure temp
7 allow saw to cool befor next test

AND HERE IS WHAT I FOUND
-----------------------------------

Stock muffler opening 0.11 sqr inches
---------------------------

RPM 13450
Idle sound level 80.2 db
Max sound level 97.1 db
Idle temp muffler 64 C
Idle temp head 60 C
Cycle test temp muffler 119C
Cycle test temp head 68C
3 cut test temp muffler 183C
3 cut test temp head 105C
3 cut test time 8.5 sec


Muffler with two 7/16 openings total 0. 30 sqr inch
---------------------------------------

RPM 13650 +1.5%
Idle sound level 84.9 db +5.9%
Max sound level 99.5 db +2.8%
Idle temp muffler 62 C -3.2%
Idle temp head 58 C -3.4%
Cycle test temp muffler 89C -33.7%
Cycle test temp head 62C -9.7%
3 cut test temp muffler 164C -11.6%
3 cut test temp head 96C -9.4%
3 cut test time 8.0 sec -6.3%

Muffler with three 7/16 openings total 0.45 sqr inches
-----------------------------------------

RPM 13750 +2.2%
Idle sound level 87.1 db +8.7%
Max sound level 101.8 db +4.8%
Idle temp muffler 56 C -14.3%
Idle temp head 55 C -16.4%
Cycle test temp muffler 88C -35.2%
Cycle test temp head 62C -9.7%
3 cut test temp muffler 147C -24.5%
3 cut test temp head 105C -12.9%
3 cut test time 7.6 sec -11.8%

Muffler with one 7/16 x 1.5 inch opening total 0.66 sqr inches
--------------------------------------------------

RPM 14000* +4.1%
Idle sound level 89.9 db +12.1%
Max sound level 103.0 db +6.1%
Idle temp muffler 54 C -18.6%
Idle temp head 52 C -15.4%
Cycle test temp muffler 82C -45.2%
Cycle test temp head 61C -11.5%
3 cut test temp muffler 183C -28.0%
3 cut test temp head 85C -23.6%
3 cut test time 6.9 sec -24.6%

* mixture richer by a hair RPM = 14100 before adjustment

Exaust port matched and smoothed
---------------------------------------------

RPM 14050 +4.4%
Idle sound level 89.9 db +12.1% NC
Max sound level 103.0 db +6.1% NC
Idle temp muffler 54 C -18.6% NC
Idle temp head 51 C -17.6%
Cycle test temp muffler 82C -45.2% NC
Cycle test temp head 61C -11.5% NC
3 cut test temp muffler 183C -28.0% NC
3 cut test temp head 83C -26.5%
3 cut test time 6.7 sec -26.8%


Other Notes

My cutting tequnique may have improved over the tests, however I was cutting disks off towards the larger end of the log during the last few tests, so it probably equals out.

The air temprature was cool for the tests, the engine tempratue factors may well be more pronounced if the same tests were done during hot weather.

Even though the sound level data shows an increase of 12% idle and 6% maximum the real change in much greated due to the logarithimic nature of the db scale, the precieved change of a 10 db increase as in the saw idle measurments would be that the sound level has doubled.

Allthough the mixture seemed to be good at 14000 rpm I richened it to achieve 13800 when I was finished.

gains don't seem to be falling off too fast so I will likely open up the muffler a wee bit more in the future.

Data tables don't post well, I think I'l make it a text file and attach it next time.

Wife didn't think much of me spending most of the day making the chain saw louder! Just wait til I finish the 066. lol

Timberwolf
 
Keith,
The magnum Z mufler is available at:

Main Line Mower in Berwyn , Pa. 610-647-6047

One of the Buzz Boarders bought one yesterday. The Stihl rep said it adds up to 15%. I think that it was around $25.00.

It is supposed to fit 044s and 046s.
 
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