Ring difference

ABR rings vs X rings? Is one better than the other?

I just found original thread about this and apologize for bringing it up again. Please feel free to delete post.

Chris
 
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Monkeylove, .....so we are avoiding all highly opinionated remarks and debate....after yours?

I always appreciate your posts, input and perspective on equip and things in general. I'm disappointed if you have less value for the collective thoughts and perspectives of others.
 
Not at all Merle. I would love to hear from somebody who has ran both rings and had one version fail or act differently than the other. I've ran Antal rings for boating long before I saw them on here so when they appeared on here it was easy for me to see their durability in tree use. The silver version is the same ring without Hard Anodizing give or take as far as I'm concerned. If someone actually puts together a scientific study and tests the rings against each other than we may have an actual winner, maybe. That test does neither company any good so until one of them becomes "Life rated" I really don't see any difference between the 2 rings. That is just my opinion but is the reasoning behind my opening comments to lacky.
 
it really is the hard coat anodising process that makes a significant difference in the long term , I looked into it heavily with the rescue man flaming earlier in the year.
the hard coat process changes the surface and just below the surface to a hardness with similar properties to industrial produced diamond.
I have seen first hand the abr rings with small dents/dings in them just from being shipped loosly in a box i can only imagine them abused in a real world environment. XRRs are much more durable
yes the XRR's will still wear due to friction and the coat thickness will reduce over time but the benefits of the hard coat is the overall reduction of damage versus normal "soft" aluminium material.
pound for pound I say XRR every time.
 
But seriously.... the X-rings can take serious punishment. Raising a burr on any aluminum ring, say from a chainsaw nick, means retirement. But from normal wear and tear, and periodic abuse, I have yet to retire an XRR. That's not an opinion, just the facts.
 
Same here. My X Rings were and are showing no wear. When someone said they had rubbed/worn through the coating I couldn't believe it. But then after hearing it was with muddy rope it made sense. If I took a sanding disc on a body grinder to any coating I could wear through it. Bare aluminum, I expect to see them near cut in half.
 
Since it's being discussed, one issue that has not been brought up, and is somewhat contentious, is the "edge" issue with the hard coat. Once the coating wears through, the underlying aluminum is exposed, and softer than the coating above it. Consequently it wears a groove in the ring with a sharpish lip or edge where the coating stops and the aluminum begins. This edge can increase wear on the rigging rope.

Yes I've seen it firsthand. Yes it was a dirty rope. I love the rings, all of them, and enjoy their application. The ABR rings carry a lifetime warranty against "grooves" fwiw. The X/Antal rings are more durable while the coating persists.
 
But seriously.... the X-rings can take serious punishment. Raising a burr on any aluminum ring, say from a chainsaw nick, means retirement. But from normal wear and tear, and periodic abuse, I have yet to retire an XRR. That's not an opinion, just the facts.
If you did happen to develop a burr would it be accectable to take some sand paper to it?
 
If you did happen to develop a burr would it be accectable to take some sand paper to it?

I've considered that option.... and will give it a try. The rings are so inexpensive though, I just replace. Gives me the chance to get some new stuff :D. I've been experimenting with what ring set up is most versatile. I've pretty much settled on a dead end with two larges on 5/8th tenex and two single large ring dead end slings, one ten foot and one 18 foot. Blocking big wood is a job for the double beast ultra. I've got several rings from other slings I've been trying (whoopies, loopies, prussics, etc) and the experiment is ongoing. For now it's the double with one or two singles for 95% of rigging. Looking forward to the THT, or SafeBloc (as it will apparently be known) for drift lining. I'm sure that will become part of my "go to" gear bag.

I'll let you know if I decide to buff the burr out of my nicked ring.
 
I've grooved out a ring slightly while using it as a redirect. In hind site a block may have been better. So I advise use and abuse the rings when they're done get a new one, but do NOT use as a redirect to a vehicle. In my experience that's the fastest way do burn a ring. I have a ring that a gritty rope scratched up so I kept turning the ring in the sling and use it when I'm doing something I maybe shouldn't so it's been wrecked a bit but I just turn the ring in these cases not ideal but sometimes yu just say what the hell and go for it.

I have only used xrr btw I have no time in or opinion on abr
 
I've considered that option.... and will give it a try. The rings are so inexpensive though, I just replace. Gives me the chance to get some new stuff :D. I've been experimenting with what ring set up is most versatile. I've pretty much settled on a dead end with two larges on 5/8th tenex and two single large ring dead end slings, one ten foot and one 18 foot. Blocking big wood is a job for the double beast ultra. I've got several rings from other slings I've been trying (whoopies, loopies, prussics, etc) and the experiment is ongoing. For now it's the double with one or two singles for 95% of rigging. Looking forward to the THT, or SafeBloc (as it will apparently be known) for drift lining. I'm sure that will become part of my "go to" gear bag.

I'll let you know if I decide to buff the burr out of my nicked ring.
My 'go to' xrr slings
1. 3/4" tenex rr fs (1 beast, 1 lg xrr)
2. 1/2" tenex 6' loopie (2 lg xrr)
3. 3/4" tenex 10' dead eye sling as a basal lowering device

I also have a 3/4" tenex 15' double beast dead eye sling for big wood
 
Since it's being discussed, one issue that has not been brought up, and is somewhat contentious, is the "edge" issue with the hard coat. Once the coating wears through, the underlying aluminum is exposed, and softer than the coating above it. Consequently it wears a groove in the ring with a sharpish lip or edge where the coating stops and the aluminum begins. This edge can increase wear on the rigging rope.

Yes I've seen it firsthand. Yes it was a dirty rope. I love the rings, all of them, and enjoy their application. The ABR rings carry a lifetime warranty against "grooves" fwiw. The X/Antal rings are more durable while the coating persists.

I have never seen this "sharpish edge" thing. This was discussed once before with a "rock climber" that had strong opinions without ever using the X-Rigging Rings. I've been using the rings hard at work since 2011. I've also destroyed plenty of them and other brands of rings on a continuous rope machine. I finally experienced wear through at work in 2014 when working in down-pouring rain and complete mud covered ropes, I also wore out my spider jack clutch that day as well. I'll seen pictures and samples of other XRRs that people wore through the hardcoat with mud, dirt and sand. Thousands of XRRs are in working use in treework and started in 2012 when I started promoting them. One guy a few years ago showed a ring with deep grooves and while on a public forum, he talked negative about them and said there was an edge. I was baffled by this and wanted more information. Well, in private, it was a very different story. Facts can be omitted or twisted when a person supports one particular person, arborist supply store or brand. Intentional or non-intentional.
The facts: If you use gritty, muddy or sandy ropes, you have the possibility of getting through the hardcoat. IF you get through the hardcoat, there will be a shiny patch of bright aluminum. If you see this, stop using it, but you will NOT have a sharp lip or edge. In reality, I personally would rotate the ring and keep using it. Officially, to be very safe, my advice to the public is, I say stop using it.

Using clean ropes will not wear through the hardcoat. Normal rope, I don't mean you have to use new or clean or washed ropes, just normal used rope that most of us use, will not wear through the hardcoat. Years of use! I don't care if you pull with a truck or not. We pull really nasty trees all the time with trucks and I use the beast rings all the time for it, cause I often use 1 inch diameter rope and I only own one block that can handle 1" rope. We run the truck down the road with that 1" rope through beast ring redirects. On long drives and incredible pressure it does create the most heat I've felt on the rings ,but there is NEVER wear in the hardcoat.

IF there was ever a soft aluminum product, covered by a hardcoat and it was worn through, maybe there is a lip then. I've never seen it on the XRRs and no one else has either that has shown me proof. maybe someday someone will use a dremmel tool or dip it in an acid bath and doctor up an XRR and falsely create a sharp lip between the hardcoat and aluminum patch; I wouldn't put it past some human to do that. I've seen enough wear and tear over the years and damaged enough on purpose to say there is no sharp edge after a wear through. Sorry dude, but it doesn't happen. IF you ever get a wear-through, when you concentrate as you rub your finger over the worn patch, you can tell the difference between the feel of the aluminum and the hardcoat, but that's it. no sharp edge.

We are tree guys, we are rough on things. The hardcoat gives the aluminum XRR the hardness similar to sapphires and rubies or hardened tool steel. Having multiple rings bang together on negative rigging, tossing rings out of a tree, or dropping tops or whole trees with rings still in them and NOT having to worry about aluminum burs, dents and scratches has got to be a very positive thing. A bur on an aluminum friction rope tool, should be a negative thing I would think.

I'm not here to bash other rings. But I won't stay quiet on information that appears wrong to me with as much experience that I have with the X-Rigging Rings. I'm not here to fight, but I will defend an awesome product.
 
I've worn thru the coating. That ring is still in use as it as in tight splice and I just rotated it to a less used section on the ring.
I had ABR rings and before I ever used them they had little dinks in them. I didn't think they were remotely close to something that would affect a rope running thru them, but they were here before I even got a chance to run a rope thru them, and they were hard to see. If I spent the money on them I would def be hitting up that warranty.
I've ditched the double ring set ups all together. And I've got some set ups with 3 rings I've played with (2 different sizes) that pinch the line a little and add friction, I'll try to get a pic one of these days.
You might even be able to do it with ABR rings.........
 
I was thinking that the success of the SafeBloc systems kind of makes the case that one ring can be used as the terminal. That initial hit on the THT is basically a single ring up at the top, and rope seems to handle the bend just fine. Still loving the rings, all of them.
 

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