Please Oh Lordy - Not Yet Another Recall??? DMM Ceros Biner Wire Retainer Thingy Jammed

[ghostice]

So I'm up in a spruce the other day, minding my own business havin' a great time working away, and when I tried to get the shiny new DMM Ceros Biner with wire retainer open on my MBH Ver 1.00000 bridge I got a surprise. No go! What the. I had one on my leg loop too, to try out as a Munter rappel biner (rather spiffy I thought). But Gazooks, the one on my bridge wouldn't budge and open, not by fiddling at height, by prayer and then later at the workbench in the Cave of Wonders even with pliers. Nada.
The wire somehow had wedged in at the bottom of the triple locking barrel and wouldn't budge with ANY amount of reasonable force or whacking with something plastic. So, eager to conduct high powered scientific research on the matter, into the metal vice the biner went and it actually took a whack from a cold chisel and ball peen hammer to bring the wire outta the little space at the bottom of the locking barrel. I don't know if this was a one off or is an experience that anybody else has had but it causes me to relegate yet one more new shiny life changing thingy into the Dustbin of Unreliability and, well, lessee, so far in one calendar year it's been DMM Nexus swivel units (sent back still not replaced), the infamous ISC Ultralink fiasco (at least as far as I was concerned with no reasonable place to drop off a return it seemed) and now this biner with a potential issue. The pics below (full size so you can see the cause of all the merriment) are of the jammed biner. There was nothing unusual at all about the day's climbing except the biner getting jammed (I stuck another biner on top of this one when I couldn't get it open). Below it I had the same swivel I've had for years.
I post this for other folks to check and be aware of - it would have been just hilarious if I hadn't had a spare biner.

(I haven't contacted DMM at this point cuz I just wonder if anyone else has had the same happen)
I am now becoming very leery of new stuff frankly I guess.
So heads up out there.
Would love to hear if anyone else has had the same thing happen or if it's just me that's so blessed!
Sign me "Ticked Off From The Wilds of Canada". Truly


Addenda: link to this thread emailed to DMM rep 17-May-2023

 

[Shadowscape]

I'm not buying one of those! I'm out too much gear already from the swivel deal. Not to mention I wrecked, so couldn't get the replacement of my Ultralink trying to see if I could use the sheave on a Quickie, which I also wrecked the pin of.
Thanks for the heads up at least. Hope you get some satisfaction out of your ordeal.

 

[Bart_]

Looks like the mysterious forces that manifest at the bridge (MFTMATB) were at play again. Betting some back loading popped the spring wire over the hump in the casting, where it should always reside away from the gate. Not recognizing the existence of MFTMATB and letting such a design out into the wild constitutes an oops in my books.

Am I correct on the proper wire position?

 

[ghostice]

Looks like the mysterious forces that manifest at the bridge (MFTMATB) were at play again. Betting some back loading popped the spring wire over the hump in the casting, where it should always reside away from the gate. Not recognizing the existence of MFTMATB and letting such a design out into the wild constitutes an oops in my books.

Am I correct on the proper wire position?

Yep, the wire normally resides below the hump. How it got stuck this way - who knows. Is MFTMATB sorta like Silky Lying In Wait Syndrome (SLIWS) and rope?

 

[Phil]

If I had to bet money on what happened: you rotated in your harness, causing the bridge on your harness to apply a side/lateral load to the wire gate. The gate was flexed to the side of the hump in carabiner body, had room to move up passed the hump, then relax back to its original position in line with the carabiner body, but now above the hump and below the gate. You said you had a swivel so maybe I'm wrong. I had bought a CT crab with this same wire keeper. That wire keeper lasted one climb before it got ripped out. Not a fault of the carabiner, I applied a load ( a weak one) in a manner the keeper was not designed to resist. Carabiner is still good to use, just turned it into a conventional carabiner. I have one of the Ceros you do with the spring wire keeper. I liked the DMM one better then the CT because the keeper opens down, as opposed to the CT one which opened "up". I figured the hump in the Ceros would aid in the "keeping" ability of the crab. Still, I figured it was only a matter of time before I ripped the wire gate off and so have purchased the same Ceros, but with a captive bar. In place of the wire gate, it has a solid rod threaded into the body of the carabiner. My intended use is for an attachments for the Hitch Hiker Xf swing arm as seen in a post @rico made. I tried the configuration with the Ceros I have, liked it, so bought a better suited carabiner, the one with the captive bar.

New HitchHikerXF

received the hhxf in the mail today. First impression was that its very refined and light weight compared to the hh2. Feels very nice in the hands. The slic pin has an interesting way of being disengaged from the main body slot nearest the slic pin head (right side of device). The twist...

www.treebuzz.com

While the captive bar might not be the right design for you, all I can offer is the the wire gate spring loaded keepers seem to be more of a rock climber belay orientation aid than meant for the work we do in the tree. DMM sells the product, vendors see it and decide to sell it since it meets the ANSI requirements, and end users gamble on its compatibility in their systems. The ceros wire gate keeper, and CT, and any other brand for that matter, are not great for tree work I believe. Picking the right tool for the work is critical and I really wonder what specific application DMM designed the Ceros to be used for. I can't imagine they design all the different carabiners with all the different shapes and profiles they do, without having a specific task in mind they are trying to make easier.

I would still make DMM aware. The failure of your wire gate is way more problematic than the one I had with the CT because it potentially means you couldn't unclip if that was what was required of your setup. The wire gate in the CT just got ripped out and disappeared into the ether.

 

[Shadowscape]

I think it was woodland spirits. They have a nasty sense of humor and are always getting into my gear.

 

[LBF]

Yikes, that’s a problematic design. I never even gave it a thought. I bought a Rock Exotica with a wire gate to try out, but the wire gate opens opposite of the carabiner, so it can’t jam things shut. I was reasonably happy with it but wanted another and ended up with a DMM captive bar because the place I was ordering from didn’t have the RE like I had.