Open lines of communication with landscape contractors

[Phil_Arborsmith]

Hey all!

With the planting BMP's not being followed and the demand for landscape contractors to be less expensive, we are constantly faced with the dilema of how to tell our clients that their new tree was doomed when it was planted. In fact, a large portion of the time it is directly due to actions taken by the nursery that grew the tree, and/or the landscaper that planted it.

I feel it is my obligation to my client to have a discussion with the contractor that they paid to professionally plant the tree. My question lies in the approach other arborists take when approaching said contractors. We strive to maintain a positive, constructive relationship with our industry partners.

It is encouraging to see planting depth issues being addressed in the planting BMP's and I am hopeful that it will spread to the nursery/landscaping industries as well.

Thank you in advance for your replies!

 

[RopeShield]

And should be a paid to you report.
No one cares when its free and you'll waste your time.

 

[JD3000]

It's just not planting depth, it's also no site analysis before design or plant selection, and poor mulching and watering as well as other maintenance practices. Throw in destruction of soil structure during construction amongst a laundry list of other potential problems.

Teaching a PHC class right now geared towards woodies and arbos but also have future designers/architects as well as maintenance and management folks in the class. Hopefully it helps later on.

 

[TCtreeswinger]

I called a landscapers bluff this year. An ironwood I dug 4-6" out and still no buttress root. He claimed he trained properly but the "flair" his crew found was miniscule. My conversation was him claiming nature produces sgrs and they're "fine" my response was nobody pays you to plant nature which he did not appreciate. He went and raked out some of the grade and called it "good" since it's Sandy soil. All said and done it did nothing but put the customer in an awkward position.

 

[cerviarborist]

Hey all!

With the planting BMP's not being followed and the demand for landscape contractors to be less expensive, we are constantly faced with the dilema of how to tell our clients that their new tree was doomed when it was planted. In fact, a large portion of the time it is directly due to actions taken by the nursery that grew the tree, and/or the landscaper that planted it.

I feel it is my obligation to my client to have a discussion with the contractor that they paid to professionally plant the tree. My question lies in the approach other arborists take when approaching said contractors. We strive to maintain a positive, constructive relationship with our industry partners.

It is encouraging to see planting depth issues being addressed in the planting BMP's and I am hopeful that it will spread to the nursery/landscaping industries as well.

Thank you in advance for your replies!

Seeing as Champaign Il is where ISA International headquarters is located, if the landscrapers there haven't figured out how to properly plant a tree......I got nothing.

 

[treehumper]

I discuss it with my clients. Tell them to check the landscapers work instead of trying to change the contractors practices. Too often the landscaper/owner knows the proper approach but then the work is done by their laborers who only see the need to get as many in the ground in the least amount of time.

 

[Phil_Arborsmith]

Seeing as Champaign Il is where ISA International headquarters is located, if the landscrapers there haven't figured out how to properly plant a tree......I got nothing.

One would think...

we have worked hard for a couple decades now to change the culture, but it seems to be a systemic problem with the industry. We are working the back end with ISA to effort their assistance with influencing their sister organizations in the landscaping/nurserymen industries. At a recent conference the Illinois Landscape Contractors Association had a booth and we attempted conversation with them regarding their industry standards, but to no avail.

 

[Phil_Arborsmith]

I discuss it with my clients. Tell them to check the landscapers work instead of trying to change the contractors practices. Too often the landscaper/owner knows the proper approach but then the work is done by their laborers who only see the need to get as many in the ground in the least amount of time.

This has been our tack also. We provide our customer with the ISA BMP's and have them request quote from landscaper to plant according to those standards. This has been a productive approach most of the time. The situations we are running into now are when it is a new customer, or a customer that did not consult with us before hiring their planting contractor.

I should also add to the conversation that we are seeing increasing ammounts of defective trees (Honeylocust with cankers for instance) being planted. These are the more sticky situations. An approach we are considering is to go to the contractor and appeal to their professional pride by commenting that we are sure they would want to know that the stock they installed was defective. As an arborist I fully understand that sometimes issues get overlooked, or did not present as strongly when the plant was installed, so I want to bring it to their attention.

I have not field-tested this approach yet, but will be shortly...

 

[Phil_Arborsmith]

And should be a paid to you report.
No one cares when its free and you'll waste your time.

Absolutely! We feel the same way. In most every case you get what you pay for. If we don't value our time/expertise, then why should we expect anyone else to?

 

[Phil_Arborsmith]

It's just not planting depth, it's also no site analysis before design or plant selection, and poor mulching and watering as well as other maintenance practices. Throw in destruction of soil structure during construction amongst a laundry list of other potential problems.

Teaching a PHC class right now geared towards woodies and arbos but also have future designers/architects as well as maintenance and management folks in the class. Hopefully it helps later on.

Right on! I definitely agree on the vast array of ways we torture trees in the urban environment. It has always been fascinating to see how Mother Nature deals with our methodology and financial greed.

Thank you for your continued efforts to better the future!

 

[Phil_Arborsmith]

I called a landscapers bluff this year. An ironwood I dug 4-6" out and still no buttress root. He claimed he trained properly but the "flair" his crew found was miniscule. My conversation was him claiming nature produces sgrs and they're "fine" my response was nobody pays you to plant nature which he did not appreciate. He went and raked out some of the grade and called it "good" since it's Sandy soil. All said and done it did nothing but put the customer in an awkward position.

And lef them with a dead tree that hasn't turned brown yet...

 

[Jasonk]

The struggle with us is most often selling planting when a landscaper is half or 2/3 the price due to shoddy practices. The majority of the problems here arise 10 or so years after planting with stem girdling roots that choke out the tree. By that time the installer is usually out of biz. People associate planting with landscapers. A local large company just installed 80 Blue Spruce nice and close as a hedge at a new house, while needle cast is everywhere here. All I can do is shake my head. By the way, this is a 30 yr old company and the owner has a degree in hort.

 

[JD3000]

Try arguing with a LA over plant selection...many have an infallibility complex.

"So you want to plant this understory, acid-loving dogwood (insert any other plant with particular cultural requirements here) in this alkaline-calcareous clay that is also now very compacted from construction...and it's exposed to quit a bit if sun here..."

"Just fertilize it. It will be fine."

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

The struggle with us is most often selling planting when a landscaper is half or 2/3 the price due to shoddy practices. The majority of the problems here arise 10 or so years after planting with stem girdling roots that choke out the tree. By that time the installer is usually out of biz. People associate planting with landscapers. A local large company just installed 80 Blue Spruce nice and close as a hedge at a new house, while needle cast is everywhere here. All I can do is shake my head. By the way, this is a 30 yr old company and the owner has a degree in hort.

This is a huge problem all around the country (beyond I don’t know). We combat this by explaining up front we are not going to be the cheapest planting around (quite regularly 10-15% or higher), but rest assured there is much more than just planting a tree going on. We sell the correct planting that meets and exceeds the industry standard, A300 standard and nursery standards. We also provide care instructions for their particular tree, add “customer service” if they have a concern through the growing season and for the right client have watered their trees while they were on vacation. We have even installed irrigation on several projects to simplify the watering regimen.
Basically it’s all in the sale. You want to convince the owner (for the right reasons of course) that they WANT to pay you for this service. And in most instances it not overly difficult to do so.

 

[Timber1972]

This is a huge problem all around the country (beyond I don’t know). We combat this by explaining up front we are not going to be the cheapest planting around (quite regularly 10-15% or higher), but rest assured there is much more than just planting a tree going on. We sell the correct planting that meets and exceeds the industry standard, A300 standard and nursery standards. We also provide care instructions for their particular tree, add “customer service” if they have a concern through the growing season and for the right client have watered their trees while they were on vacation. We have even installed irrigation on several projects to simplify the watering regimen.
Basically it’s all in the sale. You want to convince the owner (for the right reasons of course) that they WANT to pay you for this service. And in most instances it not overly difficult to do so.

That is what we are doing more and more of. I often now go to a ho who "doesn't know what to do with their trees." By the end of half an hour of showing them what is wrong with the plantings and irrigation they are asking if I will do a full on landscape design and installation for them. All I do is educate and leave it at that.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

The other thing I have done in years past was seeing as how I don’t own a digging device I have worked with several good friends (landscapers, a bit on the crude side too) for our excavation. This has changed how they sell planting and how they do it. We have corrected selection issues, depth issues, hole size issues and the all important basket and burlap problems with the crews I have worked with. I have also worked on some of their planting projects and showed them it’s not anymore difficult to do it right and it really doesn’t take that much more time.... and there is more value!

 

[JD3000]

Now we just need them to address compaction on a site before plant installs. Dedicating budget to soil structure and drainage would make a huge difference in our fine textured soils in my area. Then there's preservation of existing trees during construction and grading...

 

[TCtreeswinger]

Meet with a builder this summer for some clearing. He was excited to be selling new homes on lots with mature oaks and pines etc. So I was excited to help preserve them during the process until he told me grade was coming up 6 feet in some places! I said might as well clear cut it to which he replied oh I know all about construction stress it'll be fine.