Neurodiversity thread

[southsoundtree]

@evo didn't you start a thread? I can't find it.



Olympia is a powerful magnet for neurodiversity.

ADHDers, AudhDHDers, autistics flock to The Evergreen State College. Many stayed in Olympia, since the late 1960 or early 70s increasing the genetic pool, to my unconfirmed reasoning.



I'm trying to find strategies to help with employee and personal/ family relationships involving neurodiversity.




I was just watching a Dr's 'reel' about AuDHD people having difficulty changing directions rapidly. In most tree work, this is the name of the game.


I ask how new employees each learn and what/ how I can direct things so they are ideally following along, and asking pertinent questions and statements.

One guy told me to only ask him to do things one thing at a time. That was pretty easy to accomodate, and he was a valuable asset for the summer until a pre-planned move from the area.


Asking people to get 3 tools from the truck has been difficulty.There's is tons of stuff in the truck, but each thing has a specific home.

I ask that tools are put away Only in the place that puts them away properly, not somewhere in the truck. Otherwise, I ask them to set the tool in the one staging area or Next to (not under, against, on, in front/ back of) the truck. Any time we may need to move the truck, non- emergency or planning for an emergency, nothing needs to be moved. Everthing can be found where it belongs in the truck or in the 1 staging area. I can direct someone to the color, shape and location of most everthing if it's put away properly.

I commonly describe things by color. Most things aren't any given color, so asking for the blue pickaroon eliminates everthing that isn't blue.





This employee ND is most definitely a part of why I can work so easily and productively on my own or self-lowering, rather than asking people to help me.





Difficulty with State of Mind and clear communication have been ongoing challenges. Changing directions, and seeing the forest And the trees, have been ongoing difficulties.


One person told me that they had a hard time figuring out what I would or wouldn't know as, as someone outside that person's head. They would choose to go somewhere out of sight, from the DZ, but it could have been 2' or 200' while I was dropping trunk wood.

I keep finding employees going to the bad/ the worst places because it's out from the drop zone (and they don't choose a sensible place, in the open (shade or sun available), close to the DZ (where there are other work tasks available and on their task list beyond waiting for the next piece to be rigged/ cut/ lowered). They frequently go to a spot without a clear emergency exit area (backed up against a trailer, behind me and out of sight, an area extra far from where they will be needed next, such as far from the Drop Zone while rigging down pieces.

It neither makes sense how often I have to tell people they keep choosing visually-obscured or fully hidden places to go when I ask for, 'Stand Clear' or 'Stand Clear in the Clear' (after explaining what that the 'in the clear' means a visually-clear space unless they are going to tell me where they will be hidden, such as at the truck/ taking a break, etc), nor how hard Call and Respond is made.
Too much Call and no Response, rather a related Call comes back in response to my Call (often a negative-framed statement or statement-question involving 'thing' or a vague reference to the past 'thing').


Looking for help.

Thanks.

 

[Serf Life]

Post in thread 'Neruo Divergence (ND). In arboriculture'

Aug 15, 2021

Whats the original thread so I can understand what's going on here. My understanding of ND isn't just someone who looks at life differently but a subset of things like ADHD, Aspurgers, Autism, ADHD, and a handful of more. One of the examples was of an introvert. That doesn't necessarily fall into the clinical definition of ND. Maybe I'm misinformed.

Introvert can be a trait of ND.. there is actually a huge movement to classify all of these into one spectrum. There is no high functioning Autism or Aspurgers, just ASD (autism spectrum …)
Current research is showing that the same...

• Evo

• 

Don't know why is fixed on this post specifically?

 

[Njdelaney]

Are all these folks you're having trouble with under the age of 35 or thereabouts? I have found that even otherwise intelligent younger people struggle with basic spatial reasoning, interacting with the material world and critical thinking in the context of a physical task. This is no doubt a symptom of too much screen time, social isolation, less time spent outside, helicopter parenting, etc etc. I'm not sure this is a neurodivergence issue. I think there is already a pretty high percentage of tree workers and especially climbers who are neurodivergent and they do well with those challenges.

 

[Evo]

@evo didn't you start a thread? I can't find it.



Olympia is a powerful magnet for neurodiversity.

ADHDers, AudhDHDers, autistics flock to The Evergreen State College. Many stayed in Olympia, since the late 1960 or early 70s increasing the genetic pool, to my unconfirmed reasoning.



I'm trying to find strategies to help with employee and personal/ family relationships involving neurodiversity.




I was just watching a Dr's 'reel' about AuDHD people having difficulty changing directions rapidly. In most tree work, this is the name of the game.


I ask how new employees each learn and what/ how I can direct things so they are ideally following along, and asking pertinent questions and statements.

One guy told me to only ask him to do things one thing at a time. That was pretty easy to accomodate, and he was a valuable asset for the summer until a pre-planned move from the area.


Asking people to get 3 tools from the truck has been difficulty.There's is tons of stuff in the truck, but each thing has a specific home.

I ask that tools are put away Only in the place that puts them away properly, not somewhere in the truck. Otherwise, I ask them to set the tool in the one staging area or Next to (not under, against, on, in front/ back of) the truck. Any time we may need to move the truck, non- emergency or planning for an emergency, nothing needs to be moved. Everthing can be found where it belongs in the truck or in the 1 staging area. I can direct someone to the color, shape and location of most everthing if it's put away properly.

I commonly describe things by color. Most things aren't any given color, so asking for the blue pickaroon eliminates everthing that isn't blue.





This employee ND is most definitely a part of why I can work so easily and productively on my own or self-lowering, rather than asking people to help me.





Difficulty with State of Mind and clear communication have been ongoing challenges. Changing directions, and seeing the forest And the trees, have been ongoing difficulties.


One person told me that they had a hard time figuring out what I would or wouldn't know as, as someone outside that person's head. They would choose to go somewhere out of sight, from the DZ, but it could have been 2' or 200' while I was dropping trunk wood.

I keep finding employees going to the bad/ the worst places because it's out from the drop zone (and they don't choose a sensible place, in the open (shade or sun available), close to the DZ (where there are other work tasks available and on their task list beyond waiting for the next piece to be rigged/ cut/ lowered). They frequently go to a spot without a clear emergency exit area (backed up against a trailer, behind me and out of sight, an area extra far from where they will be needed next, such as far from the Drop Zone while rigging down pieces.

It neither makes sense how often I have to tell people they keep choosing visually-obscured or fully hidden places to go when I ask for, 'Stand Clear' or 'Stand Clear in the Clear' (after explaining what that the 'in the clear' means a visually-clear space unless they are going to tell me where they will be hidden, such as at the truck/ taking a break, etc), nor how hard Call and Respond is made.
Too much Call and no Response, rather a related Call comes back in response to my Call (often a negative-framed statement or statement-question involving 'thing' or a vague reference to the past 'thing').


Looking for help.

Thanks.

Dang that sounds tough.
I’m AuADHD and dyslexic. My flavor of it is probably why I came into tree work and why I love it. It did take me probably a lot longer than average to get over the hump when green. My work style has always been hanging on the sidelines and seeing what needs to get done to make the system flow fluently.
Granted I was 20 years younger with a babe on the way.
I’ve always been a ‘thrill’ seeker as that is what it takes to make all the noise and ‘fruit fly brain’ to focus. That and pops raised me to work, and to work smart. Part of that training was to turn work into a game and create personal challenges with tasks.
Having strong regiments and routines are key as well.
Maybe when setting up, slow down and pull out all the gear you think will be needed for the task/job. Have this pre-staged on a tarp naming each item as you and the employee pull it out.
Make sure the purpose of the tool is understood. Knowing the all the context of the tool really helps, instead of calling it a porty, call it ‘a porta wrap friction brake for lowering’.
Yes, don’t throw too much out at them, but more of a respectful incremental training. Things like delegation of one specific task at a time. ‘This week you are greasing the chipper’, that is their primary responsibility expected beyond stacking brush.
The following week add in filling the saws and so on.
Give lessons for homework and test them on it. Something like a scrap of rope, and the task it by the end of the month they should be able to tie a bowline. Every other day go over it with them, and teach why a bowline and why it shines in tree work.
The hardest part is to figure out their learning style. Personally, it took me forever to get a bowline down. Literally couldn’t figure it out in Boy Scouts and never got the badge, I had every other fucken knot down pat and it was a huge struggle. Finally it clicked, and came down to always making the hole opposite of what’s needed. I still tie mine by crossing the bitter end and rolling it to make the hole that the rabbit already came out of.
Seriously call and we can chat more. Pretty sure you know how to get a hold of me.

Sometimes being militant and a little melodramatic helps amp things up into ‘hyper focus time’. Instead of ‘drop zone’ call it ‘death zone’. Also if they drink coffee make sure you run through a drive through and buy a cuppa. Not the healthiest thing but remember stimulants give a hyper focus response.

 

[Evo]

Also praise goes further than scolding. ‘We’ know we are ‘fuck ups’ and tend to have the expectation that we are failures or imposters. So even an annoyed eye roll stings.
Find their passion and make it relatable. For me I’m a naturalist/ecology geek and also a sucker for practical physics.

 

[data farm 26]

Are all these folks you're having trouble with under the age of 35 or thereabouts? I have found that even otherwise intelligent younger people struggle with basic spatial reasoning, interacting with the material world and critical thinking in the context of a physical task. This is no doubt a symptom of too much screen time, social isolation, less time spent outside, helicopter parenting, etc etc. I'm not sure this is a neurodivergence issue. I think there is already a pretty high percentage of tree workers and especially climbers who are neurodivergent and they do well with those challenges.

I was thinking the same thing. It sounds like more of an age thing than anything else. The younger generation is soft, my generation too. I tell some older friends things I'm hung up on or shit that bothers me and they're like 'wtf are you talking about dude, don't be so dramatic' lol.

 

[chiselbit]

@evo didn't you start a thread? I can't find it.



Olympia is a powerful magnet for neurodiversity.

ADHDers, AudhDHDers, autistics flock to The Evergreen State College. Many stayed in Olympia, since the late 1960 or early 70s increasing the genetic pool, to my unconfirmed reasoning.



I'm trying to find strategies to help with employee and personal/ family relationships involving neurodiversity.




I was just watching a Dr's 'reel' about AuDHD people having difficulty changing directions rapidly. In most tree work, this is the name of the game.


I ask how new employees each learn and what/ how I can direct things so they are ideally following along, and asking pertinent questions and statements.

One guy told me to only ask him to do things one thing at a time. That was pretty easy to accomodate, and he was a valuable asset for the summer until a pre-planned move from the area.


Asking people to get 3 tools from the truck has been difficulty.There's is tons of stuff in the truck, but each thing has a specific home.

I ask that tools are put away Only in the place that puts them away properly, not somewhere in the truck. Otherwise, I ask them to set the tool in the one staging area or Next to (not under, against, on, in front/ back of) the truck. Any time we may need to move the truck, non- emergency or planning for an emergency, nothing needs to be moved. Everthing can be found where it belongs in the truck or in the 1 staging area. I can direct someone to the color, shape and location of most everthing if it's put away properly.

I commonly describe things by color. Most things aren't any given color, so asking for the blue pickaroon eliminates everthing that isn't blue.





This employee ND is most definitely a part of why I can work so easily and productively on my own or self-lowering, rather than asking people to help me.





Difficulty with State of Mind and clear communication have been ongoing challenges. Changing directions, and seeing the forest And the trees, have been ongoing difficulties.


One person told me that they had a hard time figuring out what I would or wouldn't know as, as someone outside that person's head. They would choose to go somewhere out of sight, from the DZ, but it could have been 2' or 200' while I was dropping trunk wood.

I keep finding employees going to the bad/ the worst places because it's out from the drop zone (and they don't choose a sensible place, in the open (shade or sun available), close to the DZ (where there are other work tasks available and on their task list beyond waiting for the next piece to be rigged/ cut/ lowered). They frequently go to a spot without a clear emergency exit area (backed up against a trailer, behind me and out of sight, an area extra far from where they will be needed next, such as far from the Drop Zone while rigging down pieces.

It neither makes sense how often I have to tell people they keep choosing visually-obscured or fully hidden places to go when I ask for, 'Stand Clear' or 'Stand Clear in the Clear' (after explaining what that the 'in the clear' means a visually-clear space unless they are going to tell me where they will be hidden, such as at the truck/ taking a break, etc), nor how hard Call and Respond is made.
Too much Call and no Response, rather a related Call comes back in response to my Call (often a negative-framed statement or statement-question involving 'thing' or a vague reference to the past 'thing').


Looking for help.

Thanks.

I was just looking for that thread the other day. Couldn’t find it

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

Maybe, just maybe Sean, the issue isn’t every single worker you’ve had.

 

[southsoundtree]

Mick, I've had a bunch of good employees. They generally have understood chain of command, protocols, safety procedures, can absorb training, etc. A guy went from my crew to a HotShot Wildfire firefighting crew (federal gov't job that's hard to get). One guy owns his own company, locally. He came to me 6 years experience but didn't know how hinges worked professionally (previously, it was take trees down in little pieces until it couldn't possible hit something, then flop a stub).


They generally have bigger and better things to move onto , like a professional career. The firefighter trainee had Zero problems with instruction, clear communication, and safety procedures. He could understand that if he didn't know the plan, a simple thing to do is say, "What's the plan?" Or "What can I do?", instead of, " Do you want me to ______ (insert thing that caught their eye but not the next sensible or planned step)?"



I can keep me and another person safe even when I have to continue to watch everything. Having 2 people in the ground is way harder to keep everyone safe ( like the time I got hit by a log because someone came up behind me after leaving the work area ( I can't see behind me) grabbed a tag line and pulled the log into me instead of it falling away, into the rigging rope held by the person with whom I made a Call-and-Respond plan.



How do you handle that situation?

What about when people only tell you what Isn't happening?

What do you do when groundie want to stand in various hidden places during rigging operations where we can see and discuss things and they can see while we're actively lowering.

What do you do when they say "ok" instead of "stop!"?

What do you do when they are spotting while I back the truck and trailer in tight and view- obstructed areas, and they keep going out of sight and wanting to give their own visual signals or ambiguous signals?

We also have comms where they could count me down in a clear way (feet and direction, e.g. about 18" drivers side, 6' backward) but want to "okay, okay, okay" instead of how they are trained (using the basic, effective system I use solo if I don't have a backup camera).


I would love people to even have their own sensible approach if mine isn't good enough.

I have been trailering for almost 30 years and have a class A CDL (commercial driver's license, longest heaviest thing I've driven was a 33000 pound bucket truck, with an equipment trailer and log skidder, through Seattle traffic, onto a ferry, so upwards of 60' and 50,000 pounds). Commonly, they can drive a Honda well enough to get to/ from work if they don't have to back up a curving driveway on a hill with obscured vision ( our common scenario).




I could go on about how I said something clearly and they understood.

I could go on about how some people are good communicators who get their point across clearly and concisely.

I could say how some people yell you what is happening instead of what isn't happening.

I could tell you some people make clear statements and clear questions.

I could tell you that some people stay on track, without going off on wrong ideas that them come back to say, " oh, I thought..."

 

[southsoundtree]

Maybe, just maybe Sean, the issue isn’t every single worker you’ve had.

How many autistic people and neurodiversity people do you work with?


Do you know about verbal language accessibility/ inaccessibility for ND people?


Hearing ,"It's not the thing" is hard for me to clearly and inambiguously understand what thing they are not talking about.



If you don't want someone to not undo something, what don't you not do?

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

Tbh Sean I find the whole neuro-divergent schtick a bit of a crock.

 

[Matias]

Tbh Sean I find the whole neuro-divergent schtick a bit of a crock.

Do you think that all the doctors and researchers that are studying it are all wasting their time? I just wanna be crystal clear that you, with all your years of experience not practicing medicine, feel like you know more about the subject than what has been presented over the last entire human lifetime... and you've concluded that it's all hogwash?

 

[Evo]

Tbh Sean I find the whole neuro-divergent schtick a bit of a crock.

Care to elaborate. Or are you going to stick to the same ole schtick?

 

[Evo]

@southsoundtree


What about when people only tell you what Isn't happening?
Can you elaborate?

What do you do when groundie want to stand in various hidden places during rigging operations where we can see and discuss things and they can see while we're actively lowering.
Make it damn clear they are to stay in clear line of sight at all times. Like the bumper stickers ‘if you can’t see my mirror I can’t see you’

What do you do when they say "ok" instead of "stop!"?
Ok is too ambiguous, make any employee repeat the command. ‘Take slack out of the tag line, pull when I signal.’ Reply = ‘slack out, when you wave then pull hard’


What do you do when they are spotting while I back the truck and trailer in tight and view- obstructed areas, and they keep going out of sight and wanting to give their own visual signals or ambiguous signals?
Immediately stop the truck. See above ‘if you can’t see my mirror I can’t see you’.

We also have comms where they could count me down in a clear way (feet and direction, e.g. about 18" drivers side, 6' backward) but want to "okay, okay, okay" instead of how they are trained (using the basic, effective system I use solo if I don't have a backup camera).
Sometimes distance measurements are hard to translate in the mental flow, more so with moving parts. Use tangible things such as chipper length, truck length, train length (chipper and truck combined).
Arms splayed wrists bent 90 degrees to indicate ‘ALOT’ hands slowly moving together as that distance closes. Can be scaled as needed in relation to space if the site.

Wild exaggerated thumb pointing for hard steering, two hand index thumb tapping with other hand thumb pointing in little movements for minor steering.

I would love people to even have their own sensible approach if mine isn't good enough.

Key takeaway make things relatable to the tangible.

 

[Reach]

@southsoundtree


What about when people only tell you what Isn't happening?
Can you elaborate?

What do you do when groundie want to stand in various hidden places during rigging operations where we can see and discuss things and they can see while we're actively lowering.
Make it damn clear they are to stay in clear line of sight at all times. Like the bumper stickers ‘if you can’t see my mirror I can’t see you’

What do you do when they say "ok" instead of "stop!"?
Ok is too ambiguous, make any employee repeat the command. ‘Take slack out of the tag line, pull when I signal.’ Reply = ‘slack out, when you wave then pull hard’


What do you do when they are spotting while I back the truck and trailer in tight and view- obstructed areas, and they keep going out of sight and wanting to give their own visual signals or ambiguous signals?
Immediately stop the truck. See above ‘if you can’t see my mirror I can’t see you’.

We also have comms where they could count me down in a clear way (feet and direction, e.g. about 18" drivers side, 6' backward) but want to "okay, okay, okay" instead of how they are trained (using the basic, effective system I use solo if I don't have a backup camera).
Sometimes distance measurements are hard to translate in the mental flow, more so with moving parts. Use tangible things such as chipper length, truck length, train length (chipper and truck combined).
Arms splayed wrists bent 90 degrees to indicate ‘ALOT’ hands slowly moving together as that distance closes. Can be scaled as needed in relation to space if the site.

Wild exaggerated thumb pointing for hard steering, two hand index thumb tapping with other hand thumb pointing in little movements for minor steering.

I would love people to even have their own sensible approach if mine isn't good enough.

Key takeaway make things relatable to the tangible.

Seems like you summed up how we teach everybody to do things. Keep it simple, it works.

I know quite a few people who would qualify as neurodivergent, high functioning autism runs in my family so I've dealt with quite a bit of it. Probably the most important thing to learn is that those on the spectrum take everything literally, because they cannot read emotions effectively. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. For most "regular" people, that is often difficult.

 

[Evo]

Seems like you summed up how we teach everybody to do things. Keep it simple, it works.

I know quite a few people who would qualify as neurodivergent, high functioning autism runs in my family so I've dealt with quite a bit of it. Probably the most important thing to learn is that those on the spectrum take everything literally, because they cannot read emotions effectively. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. For most "regular" people, that is often difficult.

One thing I found ‘can’t read emotions’ is a common misnomer. While it can be exactly that, it comes down to misunderstanding, misexpression or interpreting emotions wrongly, sometimes emotional regulation gets all out of whack. Such as expressing an emotion that is read as an entirely different emotion.
I’d go as far to say acutely aware of emotion, but failing to understand the context.
To open up a little this is one of my bigger challenges. I mask well but have a lot of social insecurity. I focus too much on nuance of emotions trying to interpret them coming from others. Sometimes misinterpreting, and tripping myself out taking it too personally.
That and internal or external processing of my own emotions.
Read up on alexithimia, it’s not a lack of emotion but more of a failure to express emotions, more so with language. I describe it as an oil sheen on water with a mild breeze, one big ass mixed up soup of many different emotions flooding at once. This when heated quickly turns into overwhelm and becomes exhausting. My 8 year old can’t remember me crying, and my lack of expressing that is more so keeping the soup and overwhelm at bay, as it takes weeks to come back into a baseline.

 

[Mick Dempsey!]

Do you think that all the doctors and researchers that are studying it are all wasting their time? I just wanna be crystal clear that you, with all your years of experience not practicing medicine, feel like you know more about the subject than what has been presented over the last entire human lifetime... and you've concluded that it's all hogwash?

Not all hogwash of course, I worked with a autistic kid, no faking that!

The last few years has seen an industry and subculture built up around a new, easy to misdiagnose (or get your doctor to give you the diagnosis you want) condition that feeds into a general mental health zeitgeist.
If you’re a sleb, nothing better than sitting on a sofa telling a sympathetic interviewer about your recent adhd/Asperger’s diagnosis and being congratulated on your bravery.
While your publicist rubs his hands together behind the scenes.
The new neuro-divergent term that’s appeared recently is even better, sounds different and interesting without being scary or visibly mentally impaired, if you really hit the jackpot get the doc to say you’re a ‘high performing autistic’ that’s the golden ticket.

Got a kid who’s a pain in the arse? Toddle him off to the docs, get a diagnosis, et voila! Not yours or his fault, it’s the ADHD that made me do it mum!

 

[southsoundtree]

Tbh Sean I find the whole neuro-divergent schtick a bit of a crock.

That's helpful. Do the medications, therapies/ skill development and lifestyle changes that lead to improved function have any effects, if only placebo, from your view?



Consider that a lot of ND people have some trauma.






I have a difficult time understanding negative-framing and statement-questions WITH flat affect, a ND trait.

I'll do it here.

"You don't want me to help you with chipper".

That was a question.

With flat affect/ comm/ chipper in the background and looking at the work in front of me, planning everything, I find it hard to understand what that sentence is meant to convey and translate that into "I think you do not want me to help you with the chipper, right?", allowing me to have a question in my brain about what is being asked.

Or
"Do you want me to help you with the chipper, or not? I think you don't.


All in looking for is someone with good followership Or someone to lead.

To me, "what's the plan?" Or "I'm ready for a task/ the next 'thing'."/ "What can I do?" seems like it's an easy way to "Be loud, clear, and Concise". I add in 'pertinent' to that list, as well.






If I ask someone with a dog in the car if they want to park in the shade, what I want to know is if they want to park in the shade.

I don't want overcomplicatoon like, "I don't want to be ____ ____".

Yes. No. Very , very simple and straightforward question.

Who: you
What: want park in the shade or do not want to park in the shade
Where: in a shady location
When: now. 'Do' is present tense
Why: hot cars with windows down are still hot cats with an unattended dog inside.


Going into " I don't want___" (what isn't happening) is not needed to answer if they want shade.

It's over-complicating and changing the subject from a simple, straightforward information-seeking question into a bunch of different things that are not what I asked.
Apply that lack of simple and straightforward communication to All Day, Every Day.


Take this example and apply it to all day.

 

[southsoundtree]

Often, people WANT to help. That's been my overwhelming experience.

Some people seem to have a hard time listening to what is helpful.

Once, I told two guys to move everthing next to the chip truck on a big rigging job (where one guy wanted to help so he hit me with a rigged log by sneaking up behind me after comingback from 'watering a tree' and having the second rope that was for landing, not catching the log). I came to the front yard to find they shoved everthing they could find in the truck. When asked if everthing was in the truck, rather than answering the question, they started talking about their intentions. They wanted to help and put everything they could find into the truck in the wrong place, without inventoring-in the gear to be sure everthing made it.

Same guy couldn't remember we always aim to back into the driver's (easier) side when possible.

"Well, how was I supposed to know?"

Because he's been trained on that, that's what we normally do and talk about, and experience shows that's way easier than backing toward the convex mirror, where one can't see down the whole side of the truck, and the exhaust condensation cloud grows in the driver's view in the passenger mirror every time someone presses the accelerator.

 

[Njdelaney]

@southsoundtree your anger and frustration is palpable. You seem like a fine-tuned, super capable and exacting person. You are going to have trouble regularly finding help that doesn't frustrate you. I think a case could be made that you yourself are neurodivergent using the definition of that term so just recognize it for what it is. I frequently have the same feelings as you do but I find it easier to be patient(or at least to act patient) and to figure out where the gap in communication or attention or learning style or whatever is. It helps to be married to someone who regularly reflects back to me when I'm being hyper-critical or too demanding and detail-oriented. We need to be this way to do tree work safely so I get it. It's a constant balancing act hahaha