Love tree work. Not the tree business.

RyanCafferky

Been here a while
Just had another good friend pass away two weeks ago. She was my best friend’s wife (he passed away 21 months ago). So now I’m tasked with helping to go through their belongings and get rid of or sell everything. Certainly is making me think about what I’m doing and why

Finding myself quite disillusioned with trying to run a tree service. Just feeling like I’m on the endless treadmill of bids and customer pleasing to keep the crew busy and make payroll. Missing the days of contract climbing. Show up and blow people’s minds, hero status, pack up, go home.

My body and brain love the work. I’m 49 and have been in the game 30 years now.

I regularly think of three options:

1. Downsize to a barebones team. (Kinda dumb).

2. Sell the company. (Dumb)

3. Wait it out for two more years and then sell. (Smarter).

Advice?

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I love the work, but for as infinitesimally small as my business is, I never wanted to start a business. But it's the only way I can afford to live where I am and want to stay. To have any free time, weekends, etc, where I'm not doing all the admin, maintenance, communications, I need to GROW my business. It's a hard place to be in, so I totally understand.
 
I would say to look at what you like about what you are doing, and what you do not like about it. See if you can make changes to what you are doing, either grow the business a bit to where you can pay people to do the parts you don't like, or stop doing it altogether. As my business coach used to tell me, when you are self-employed, you don't actually have to do anything. You get to choose what you want to do, and choose what you want to pay other people to do.

The size your company is right now is probably the hardest size for a small business, as you are heavily involved in everything all the time. It is definitely a stressful size, if you get a little bigger you can hire a manager to run the daily operations and then you can do the parts you like.

There's also nothing wrong with deciding that life as a business owner is not for you, there is no shame in working for someone else doing the things you love.

I've been self-employed for 23 years now, I've actually never had a real job working for someone else so this lifestyle is all I know, I like it, but there are days that I want to line up all the employees and all of the equipment out in the front lawn with a giant "Free" sign in front of them!
 
Just keep ploughing forward, targeting that 2 year selling deadline.

We all get low periods, I’m in one at the moment, but don’t lose sight of the prize.

Two more years..
Is the prize a realistic and fulfilling goal or is it the metaphorical carrot dangling always just out of reach to keep you ploughing forward?
 
What's going to change in 2 years such that will be a better time to sell than now?

Do you have a potential buyer?

What would you do if you sold now?

Why is downsizing dumb?
Exact questions I would ask myself and that I hope Ryan has answered for himself.

Always keep all of your options on the table and always be searching for new options and opportunities to add to them. Variety is the spice of life and you never know what might be passing you by if you have your head down ploughing forward.
 
Is the prize a realistic and fulfilling goal or is it the metaphorical carrot dangling always just out of reach to keep you ploughing forward?
For me personally two years is a genuine turning point, I am 63 this year and if I can keep going for a little while longer then certain tangible benefits will appear.
I can’t go into detail as I’m sure you understand.
 
What's going to change in 2 years such that will be a better time to sell than now?

Do you have a potential buyer?

What would you do if you sold now?

Why is downsizing dumb?

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friends. Was their passing related to tree work?
In two years I could grow things enough to make my role less engrained in every aspect of the company thus increasing the value. Companies that are built solely around an individual have limited value.

No potential buyer as of yet.

If I sold I would spend a lot of time working on our property. We have a 60 acre off grid homestead with a myriad of projects. I’d go backpacking and road tripping. And I might work part time as a plumbers apprentice or at our local plumbing supply store. Most likely the latter. I really like the owner there and I’m a regular customer. And I would keep doing tree work because I love it. I’d go places where my friends are (mostly Portland) and work on their jobs. Spending time with friends is more important to me than chasing some invisible gross or net number that usually when it goes up corresponds greatly to my blood pressure and a decrease in my quality of life.

Downsizing just feels dumb because I just spent the last year growing and putting systems in place specifically to handle growth and to increase our market share. If anyone else looked at my business, the last thing that they would do is suggest downsizing right now.

Both my friends died of cancer. He died at 64, she died at 62. They both seemed healthy until they got diagnosed. Both deaths were very painful and hard to witness. And no Daniel, they weren’t vaccinated. They both had certain things that they did or were exposed to that may have increased their risk factors. But both of them had an extreme distrust of the medical system and neither ever got screenings and neither tried any treatments. It is harder somehow when you feel like they could’ve survived with basic routine screenings and some form of care.
 
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I would say to look at what you like about what you are doing, and what you do not like about it. See if you can make changes to what you are doing, either grow the business a bit to where you can pay people to do the parts you don't like, or stop doing it altogether. As my business coach used to tell me, when you are self-employed, you don't actually have to do anything. You get to choose what you want to do, and choose what you want to pay other people to do.

The size your company is right now is probably the hardest size for a small business, as you are heavily involved in everything all the time. It is definitely a stressful size, if you get a little bigger you can hire a manager to run the daily operations and then you can do the parts you like.
Shane-

I appreciate your perspective but I disagree to some extent. I find it hard to believe that by growing and getting an ops manager/sales person that my stress level and work load will decrease. I also think that it would be an exceptionally difficult position to fill and would also require an increase in payroll to pay a high functioning individual to take on those things that I’d rather not do thus increasing my stress and burden.

In a lot of ways I think that downsizing to one crew and going back to using contract help that I don’t have to keep busy all the time is the answer. But we have built enough of a market presence and reputation that even with running two crews our backlog got out of control a few times last year. I’ve thought about refining our service area or increasing prices when that happens but it just doesn’t feel good to do that.
 
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In two years I could grow things enough to make my role less engrained in every aspect of the company thus increasing the value. Companies that are built solely around an individual have limited value.

Makes sense
No potential buyer as of yet.

Obviously every market is different. And you could sell to another individual or a longer conglomerate. But, FWIW, I've had conversations with someone who is looking to retire. They have an agent helping them look for a buyer....the conglomerate companies need at least $2MM in gross before they are at all interested. No idea (and it's not my business) where you are on that...just throwing out what I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who knows people.

If I sold I would spend a lot of time working on our property. We have a 60 acre off grid homestead with a myriad of projects. I’d go backpacking and road tripping.

That's be reason enough for me to bail! Of course still need to put food on the table...


And I might work part time as a plumbers apprentice or at our local plumbing supply store. Most likely the latter. I really like the owner there and I’m a regular customer.

I've thought some other trades like plumbing and electrical would be good before I started tree work. I haven't hired many plumbers...once at my mother in law's when her sewage had backed up into her basement. Good reminder is rather deal with trees. Maybe lower pressure sales because people are coming to you needing help now. But also, I'd struggle charging people who clearly cannot afford it, but need the work done. Almost all tree work I do would be "discretionary" spending. I guess I say all that as a reminder: grass isn't always greener on the other side.
And I would keep doing tree work because I love it. I’d go places where my friends are (mostly Portland) and work on their jobs. Spending time with friends is more important to me than chasing some invisible gross or net number that usually when it goes up corresponds greatly to my blood pressure and a decrease in my quality of life.

Downsizing just feels dumb
because I just spent the last year growing and putting systems in place specifically to handle growth and to increase our market share. If anyone else looked at my business, the last thing that they would do is suggest downsizing right now.
I'll just bold the things that stood out to me...

If you keep growing, here's hoping that you find the balance. It's out there and we all will find it in a different place. Wishing you peace in that pursuit!
 
Both my friends died of cancer. He died at 64, she died at 62. They both seemed healthy until they got diagnosed. Both deaths were very painful and hard to witness. And no Daniel, they weren’t vaccinated. They both had certain things that they did or were exposed to that may have increased their risk factors. But both of them had an extreme distrust of the medical system and neither ever got screenings and neither tried any treatments. It is harder somehow when you feel like they could’ve survived with basic routine screenings and some form of care.
It's another tough balance. Thanks for sharing. Loss puts things in perspective. But my advice is don't make decisions in pain...use that to reevaluate, but make decisions from a place of peace and reflection.
 
I can’t pretend to offer magic advice to make everything better. I wish I had the opportunity to get to know Tom more and make more friends in the industry. I came in 20 years ago to support a my budding family and now it’s all I really know.

I frequently hit similar walls, yet I’ve made an effort to stay small with minimal investment in equipment and employees. Recently I was able to bring out my oldest (finally) for a few jobs. That was a massive treat.

Sometimes I tend to white knuckle things in my life, trying to control as many variables as I can. Not unlike a tricky tree dismantle, when that mindset crosses over into business and trying to support a family it tends to go sideways. I think of it as surfing, you can only control less than half of it, the rest you have to just let go and ride the wave as that’s what’s out of your control.

Maybe sit back and give it a hard look, what are the elements of your relationship to the business that are the ocean vs the wetsuit.
 
I don’t mind a lot of the other stuff associated with running a (v.small) tree company.
Making my own decisions, dealing with clients can be fun, buying and running new gear and vehicles, I wouldn’t want to just be a money making asset for someone else, mind at my age that’d be a stretch.
Of course I don’t enjoy the paperwork side of things, especially in a second language, but it comes with the territory I guess.
Been a terrible February in all honesty business wise, if things pick up my mood will lift I’m sure.
 
Very good discussion. Thanks to everyone for contributing

During a reflection session I had just before I retired I had a thought that helped me.

What I realized is that I always had great work but I some jobs that sucked my soul out of me

Once I realized th[e my life was divided between work and a job I found a bit of peace

There are many people who don't like either their work or their job
 
We keep getting to this point as well. Trying to run a legit business where you bring more to the table than a paycheck for employees and a tree cutter to clients is a chore, let alone all of the regulation, paperwork, brown nosing, etc. It sucks at times. I was there this week. Lol.

I am coming to realize that most of the issues I feel in my company come from minor decisions I made a while back. It doesn't mean they were right or wrong, but I have to deal with those (i.e. bad hires, buying new instead of used, (or visa vis and shit breaking) learning a whole new biome while building a business, etc). And much of my mal content come from my own goals and striving. I could have stayed smaller and had a decent paycheck myself, with less equipment, people, reputation, marketing, etc. But it was hard then too. That's why we grew.

We hit these inflection points about every other season where we feel like we've lost our minds in doing this. I could go sell for someone else, make way more money and have more time. But would I have more time? I'd be under someone else's thumb. I'd have more consistency, but less leverage, equity, autonomy, and control of my life (as dissolutioned my control is).

These pain points help us know where to put effort. I recently read a post on LinkedIn about a guy who is a coo for a couple of 50+ mil a year companies. He's built companies from the ground up. He said the pain points every single business owner feels are rarely unique. Employees, government regulation and red tape, bitchy customers, competition being hacks, seasonal and economic swings, isolation, are all things that business owners feel. These are the things that never go away. No matter how big you get, in fact these issues grow as your tolerance and ability to handle it grows.

Which leads to the question. Why TF do we keep doing it? Well, on Tuesday when I woke up sick and it was raining and shitty, I stayed home. My employee is buying a house and needed some numbers changed on paper to appease the bank, I can help with that. I get to give to events in my community that have an impact, and I can make more of an impact with people who support what our ideas are, i.e growth.

I've had to reshift my priorities. It's helping some. It really depends on what you are hoping to gain by leaving. If in selling out you move to an island and retire, climbing palm trees and drinking mimosas watching the sunset, then hell yeah (or whatever plan you can envision/enact after selling).

Build yourself out as a consultant/specialist to do tasks for clients that you want without the overhead, sub out the rest to folks you trust.

Talking to lawyers and accountants is a way to get a better understanding of what closing can look like. There's also (iirc) some investment networks that work through TCIA helping folks with solid companies when they hit the "end of what a single man can realistically accomplish by himself" stage.

The weight of loss still weighs heavy. Thank you for sharing. Ownership isn't for the weak, and still showing up as a friend, partner, parent, boss, mentor, punching bag, what have you, is tough enough without the rest of life. You're killing it, and whatever direction you pick just whole ass it. Haha.
 
@Tom Dunlap that reminded me of Ecclesiastes:
"I have seen what is best for people here on earth. They should eat and drink and enjoy their work, because the life God has given them on earth is short. God gives some people the ability to enjoy the wealth and property he gives them, as well as the ability to accept their state in life and enjoy their work. They do not worry about how short life is, because God keeps them busy with what they love to do."

I've been blessed to love what I do. I think I see that in tree people more than most!

I've also been given the ability to enjoy the wealth we have. By no means am we cracking the upper half of "middle class". But we have all we need and are content with that. What would be more enjoyable?
 

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