Large Maple

Keeth · Feb 1, 2015

Saw this on the way to lunch. It was a large Silver Maple that had been in decline. It was located next to a school and had been dropping pretty large pieces over the last couple of years. Shame to see it go...

These guys were planning on making some tables out of it. Cool to see it get re-purposed.

guymayor · Feb 1, 2015

Wonder what the cost of pruning would have been? Huge loss of shade and other benefits.

Plenty of solid wood held the tree up. Odd locations of cuts to re-purpose.

Keeth · Feb 1, 2015

Too much decay up top. I think it had been topped numerous times.

The guy who took it down had to reschedule twice because of tree huggers not wanting it to be taken down. One has to wonder where they were over the many years it was being hacked on...

familytreeman · Feb 1, 2015

ya Keeth, the tree huggers never are there when the landscrapers or bubbas want to start hacking away!

But they are starting to require arborist certification in many cities , which is helping somewhat

familytreeman · Feb 1, 2015

Odd locations of cuts to re-purpose."

i thought this too

is it possible they left just the one long that has the big burl on it?

guymayor · Feb 2, 2015

Too bad the tree huggers did not retain an arborist to specify pruning to mitigate the risk. I like doing 2nd opinions after some hack does a windshield assessment and says "Too much decay up top--cut 'er down!"

How can any citizen prevent topping? That's whack. If the trunk was solid like the picture shows, the only problem was either the local vegetation managers being hard up for quick cash, or not knowing how to prune a tree . family good point that they could not even get the re-purposing, urban logging thing straight.

No problems though; just slather some SPF 90 on the kids for the next 50 years, until the replacement tree fills out.

Keeth · Feb 2, 2015

guymayor said:
Too bad the tree huggers did not retain an arborist to specify pruning to mitigate the risk. I like doing 2nd opinions after some hack does a windshield assessment and says "Too much decay up top--cut 'er down!"

How can any citizen prevent topping? That's whack. If the trunk was solid like the picture shows, the only problem was either the local vegetation managers being hard up for quick cash

So with two medium quality photos and minimal information you have determined that the tree did not need to be removed?

I've got respect for your passion, but you need to reevaluate the condescension.

I don't know where the rest of the tree went, but I thought it was cool that someone was willing to try to salvage some part of such a historic specimen.

familytreeman · Feb 2, 2015

I assumed it was burl vandals :reloco:

KevinS · Feb 2, 2015

I know some of the schools we deal with have a lower threshold for risk than some of our other customers.

The school says if there is enough factors to make the tree a 'hazard tree' and they do nothing there looking at dealing with a bunch of bat shit crazy soccer moms. Each one thinking there kid's the most important person in the world. If anything every happened to one of them there would be a shit storm of epic proportions.
Then there would be a overwhelming demand to check every school in the board and anything seen as a flaw would be removed to subside panic. If that stayed localized to 1 school board you would be lucky.

That's how I got it explained to me by our school board contact. He does like to prune and save what he can but if it looks bad enough mob mentality can take over with mamas and there cubs. (Sorry not trying to be sexist if you know any batshit crazy dads they are also in on this).

guymayor · Feb 2, 2015

"So with two medium quality photos and minimal information you have determined that the tree did not need to be removed?"
Having worked with and studied trees for 50 years, YES. So with a windshield assessment you determined "Too much decay?" With an undecayed trunk and scaffolds in view, that's BS.

I've got respect for your passion, but you need to reevaluate the condescension.
Fuggit the passion, but you need to incorporate a little knowledge and reevaluate your assessments, and conclusions. Smells like sawdust lust to me.

"I don't know where the rest of the tree went, but I thought it was cool that someone was willing to try to salvage some part of such a historic specimen."
So a large tree and all its contributions get removed for tabletops. How cool is that?

"The school says if there is enough factors to make the tree a 'hazard tree' and they do nothing..."
No one would suggest doing nothing--why even say that? That is known as the 'strawman' logical fallacy, aka vegetation management BS.

The question for arborists is, why didn't anyone propose pruning to remove the hazard (a degree of risk that requires action), and make the tree's risk acceptable?

Keeth · Feb 2, 2015

guymayor said:
So with a windshield assessment you determined "Too much decay?" With an undecayed trunk and scaffolds in view, that's BS.

The question for arborists is, why didn't anyone propose pruning to remove the hazard (a degree of risk that requires action), and make the tree's risk acceptable?

You're still crying over spilled milk. The tree was gone. That means past-tense.

I did not remove this tree. I did not see anything other that what you see. To blame me for someone else's poor judgement is ridiculous.

Perhaps it would be more beneficial to give us some instruction on how to prevent a removal like this if it was unnecessary. An arborist drives by and sees a specimen like this and wants to raise awareness for preservation and Best Practices. How do they go about doing that? Discussion on prevention- I'm in. Being purely reactive and anxious to point fingers at everybody- go into politics.

Again, I know the guy who did perform the removal. Given the liberal nature of the county's tree board, I doubt if they would have let a tree of this size simply be taken down without cause and proper information.

KevinS · Feb 2, 2015

guymayor said:
"So with two medium quality photos and minimal information you have determined that the tree did not need to be removed?"
Having worked with and studied trees for 50 years, YES. So with a windshield assessment you determined "Too much decay?" With an undecayed trunk and scaffolds in view, that's BS.

I've got respect for your passion, but you need to reevaluate the condescension.
Fuggit the passion, but you need to incorporate a little knowledge and reevaluate your assessments, and conclusions. Smells like sawdust lust to me.

"I don't know where the rest of the tree went, but I thought it was cool that someone was willing to try to salvage some part of such a historic specimen."
So a large tree and all its contributions get removed for tabletops. How cool is that?

"The school says if there is enough factors to make the tree a 'hazard tree' and they do nothing..."
No one would suggest doing nothing--why even say that? That is known as the 'strawman' logical fallacy, aka vegetation management BS.

The question for arborists is, why didn't anyone propose pruning to remove the hazard (a degree of risk that requires action), and make the tree's risk acceptable?

Do you ever recommend removal?

Gorman · Feb 2, 2015

He did once. I member it.

KevinS · Feb 2, 2015

Gorman said:
He did once. I member it.

KevinS · Feb 3, 2015

Another big factor is cost sometimes you come up with a great plan but it may prove to take more time and money. If you show them a restoration plan and a removal plan and they're close sometimes people say get rid of it and plant a new one.

Being professional, you have to give the client all there options if they ask, you can't hide the removal option or inflate the removal price to steer them to your restoration plan because it's what you want.

guymayor · Feb 3, 2015

When 'proper information' such as the value of the tree is factored in, pruning rarely costs more than removal.

When 'proper information' about crown restoration is provided, pruning rarely costs more than removal. Being professional, you have to know the pruning options; you can't misrepresent the pruning option or inflate the pruning price (as with Gilman's antiquated "You should return every year" misinformation) to steer them to your removal plan because it's what your experience is.

I am not qualified to recommend ANYTHING for a big old tree; I just specify management options, and let the client decide. They know their budgets, tolerances etc.
Who are we to tell them their business?

Keeth, with a windshield assessment you determined "Too much decay" . You said the spilled milk was spoiled. past-tense, impossible to substantiate.
"An arborist drives by and sees a specimen like this and wants to raise awareness for preservation and Best Practices. How do they go about doing that?"

That's all I've been talking about for 15 years! See http://www.historictreecare.com/managing-veteran-trees-a-comprehensive-approach/

Attached via Microsoft Paint for the important half of the tree, this shingle oak was condemned by vegetation mgrs, then an arborist from a BIG company tried to sell fertilization. On a tree with 30#+ of decay mushrooms...

2nd attached was done on the phone with Skitch app and sent to owner of a tree that's splitting in half, showing proposed cable location, and yellow dots where major cuts could be made. Still working with Skitch to get better with it, but it not only raises awareness, it's a medium for specifying work, as part of a proposal.

Keeth · Feb 3, 2015

guymayor said:
Keeth, with a windshield assessment you determined "Too much decay" . You said the spilled milk was spoiled. past-tense, impossible to substantiate.
"An arborist drives by and sees a specimen like this and wants to raise awareness for preservation and Best Practices. How do they go about doing that?"

That's all I've been talking about for 15 years! See http://www.historictreecare.com/managing-veteran-trees-a-comprehensive-approach/

It appears that you still don't understand that I had NOTHING to do with this tree other than stopping by for a picture of one of the biggest maple stumps I've seen for some time.

One of the county officials who was involved with the decision process (and WAS on site) said there was too much decay and that it had probably been topped many times. Don't ask me how many, I don't know. Once is too many, but that is what happened. Facts, not speculation or finger pointing, just facts. Were they given the wrong information about pruning vs. removal? I doubt it, but it is possible.

The goal of promoting Best Practices is not what you convey in your posts. It seems that your bigger aim is to patronize folks and state the obvious over-and-over-and-over....

Maybe next time instead of picking someone out to whine to, you could instead ask them to: write a letter, visit the board, include ISA flyers or even your website, offer future solutions and information on proper tree care. Anything remotely positive would likely encourage the reader to get involved.

You are passionate and knowledgeable. I still respect that. Just work on blindly calling people morons and who knows, you might even get some personal respect too.

ROYCE · Feb 4, 2015

Guy, did you get that job with the Oak Tree with the mushrooms? If so, how much did you charge them to do the work performed?
I provide options to my clients and then let them choose what they feel comfortable with doing. Sometimes they remove the tree, sometime they do the preservation work. I think that is our job as Arborist's to provide the options and then let them decide.