[ QUOTE ]
In rock climbing circles, I think the EDK (European Death Knot) is somewhat accepted as strong enough and snag-resistant due to its asymmetrical nature.
When I'm rock rappelling, I use a EDK with a second overhand snugged right up against the first. Thought this might be a winner for SRT, too.
...
Thoughts?
[/ QUOTE ]
NB: Let's name this knot intelligently (too) :
"Offset Water Knot" (aka "Offset Overhand Bend").
emphasis : O F F S E T -that is the key aspect
(don't use "flat" for this, please (Moyer was supposed
to update his text, but ... ))
I think that you're right on target. Only spare the full
2nd overhand and just tie off the tail of the line
making the (initial) choke at the entry point; tie it off
w/an overhand around the other tail, snug to the knot
--for THIS line is what would need to be prised open for
the knot to "roll", and the stopper, well, stops that.
"strong enough" : right, as though we've EVER seen a knot
that is not, in the sorts of applications under discussion.
Simply, ropes aren't breaking from knots in use.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Now, where to begin in chasing misunderstandings ... !?
[ QUOTE ]
I will tie another overhand in the tail for good measure, and maybe even three for the hell of it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't tie knots "for the hell of it", tie the one knot
indicated above for the particular *purpose* of that knot,
to preclude "rolling" --prevent it, not accommodate it.
[ QUOTE ]
In the event that you are concerned about [offset] overhand rolling, you could always join the tails with something like a double fishermans ...
[/ QUOTE ]
As with my remark above, give the "back-up" knot more
purpose than merely waiting for failure --make it count
to preventing that failure! Tying off the tails as you
suggest runs a risk of getting this newly formed loop
snagged on something (in addition to adding needless bulk).
[ QUOTE ]
Easy untie, goes over surfaces and through crotches easier because of its low profile.
[/ QUOTE ]
Rather, because it is **offset**, leaving one side that
runs smoothly against a surface.
[ QUOTE ]
Rock climbing ropes are much more supple and flexible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? Rather, to my feel, it is the other way 'round,
but YMMV w/condition of ropes. Still, I think that
one should be able to adequately tighten the offset
water knot in the ropes of issue. And this is
something QUITE TESTABLE ('quiTEstable') by users
with their own gear, bouncing on the knot; it's not
as though in use it will be expected to sustain greater
loads.
[ QUOTE ]
How about a sheet bend with a back up knot? it is streamlined and essentially a bowline when joining similar ropes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Eh, not so streamlined (even w/o back-up), and not so
much a bowline in mechanics, only in superficial look.
[ QUOTE ]
A proper sheet bend is tied with two different sized ropes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nonsense! --indeed, some recommend against such use,
which grows more dubious w/size difference.
[ QUOTE ]
If a knot requires a backup then I would think really hard about even using the knot.
[/ QUOTE ]
I feel your pain. OTOH, though, some such combinations
might be just the ticket. E.g., one can read of the
so-called "square fisherman's", by which is meant a
square knot with tails tied off with strangle knots
(showing that "square grapevine." was a better guess);
turning the square knot --somewhat reliable, despite
the Ashley parroting of end-of-world scenarios-- into
the gimmicky thief knot (!) loses surety in the center,
but with the slippage inherent in the thief will better
bring the strangles to snug against this central knot
(which helps keep the tie-offs/back-ups tied),
and the thief ultimately is more easily untied.
[ QUOTE ]
i prefer the hunters bend for joining ropes. its easy to tie and unties very easily when its been loaded.
[/ QUOTE ]
SmitHunter's bend can jam when heavily loaded.
There's a version w/the tails crossing differently
which is more resistant to jamming. But, of the many
known interlocked-overhand bends, this one is on the
low end for jamming resistance. (The "zeppelin" being
one of the most jam-proof.)
[ QUOTE ]
I do put stopper knots in the tails just as a back up but I can't see it coming out.
[/ QUOTE ]
!!!? Whoa, rather than this, just take the tails around
and through a 2nd time. This knot is resistant to coming
loose, but I yet feel some caution about its integrity
if dragged through/among stuff that might snag a bight.
... and so on.
*kN*
