How are you viewed by peers - customers?

farmergardiner

farmergardiner

I was viewing a thread in posted by a young man in the industry who was interested in trying to make his appearance equate his experience.

I am interested in hearing other women's experiences with co workers or customers. To start off a couple of my own. I started doing estimating work in the early 90's. I also answered the phones part time. A few times, when I would be setting up the appointment and they would just hang up on me or say "I'm not having a woman do that!" and hang up.

Another time during our 1998 ice storm I met a customer wanting a removal of 3 damaged trees. He looked me directly in the eye and said, "They sent a woman to do a man's job". He had to sprint to catch up to me to apologize and ultimately get his estimate!

The most special times were the elderly women customers who would touch my arm and tell me that it was just wonderful that I could do this job.

That's the part that makes my job special!!
 
I've had the same mixed experiences.

When I was doing PHC in Denver I had an male ex-Marine customer question whether I would be able to pull the hose up to his trees and get the job done properly. I had another job where I was spraying this poor battered crabapple that was on it's last limb and the elderly couple, who dearly loved this tree, came out before I sprayed and they were so thankful that they sent a woman because the guys "just spray the heck out of it and it looses all it's leaves." Which, the losing the leaves is not the guy's fault, the tree was on it's way out, which I explained to them.

This past winter I was working in Minneapolis and had an older guy got super excited that a woman was climbing and pruning his trees, he took a photo to show his daughter, whom he thought would be very excited.

I never had a problem with customers questioning whether I could do a job or not. I usually tell them that I wouldn't have been sent if I wasn't able and knowledgable and then I list off my qualifications. And when I am questioned on my abilities, and I do a great job, I feel an even bigger sense of pride and I hope the customer spreads the word that a woman did great work on their trees.

The problem I have is the occasional times when my male co-workers would question my abilities, strength, or perseverance. At the same time some of these same co-workers would ask for my help in other situations, especially in PHC, which is my background. It's all a give and take.

Sometimes I wonder if it's really a gender-thing all the time? Or is it that you need to work together longer to learn each other's skills? I try to remind people that genitalia do not start the chainsaw or the vacuum, the person does.
 
ya know whats really strange ,I find,?when you are not one who discriminates, the idea that some could be So off is just weird to me.If your mind doesnt work that way it is almost a shock that people actually utter such things.My wife tells me all the time when "guys"come to the house to give an estimate for work that half the time she is dissed with neanderthalic behavior.ANd im like are YOU SERIOUS!!
My wife has a high motor......and could out endure most of those clowns.......sorry i had to vent!!what is up with that?
 
yes paul, you may not realize how differently you think and perceive, and how free you are from traditional conditioning. you have a woman on your crew right? tres unusual right there.

so far i've only had clients be psyched that they are dealing with a woman. first, they seem to like the change of pace. next, they seem to feel very open in discussing all the aspects of the job/potential job, and ask alot of questions. i'd have to say though that i don't think being a woman Got me the job. unfortunately. at first when i advertised i didn't let out that i was a woman, i let them figure it out when they called me, and figured anyone who couldn't handle it just wouldn't have me over. so i think that worked to select out problems. lately the economy has been so bad in ca that i have decided to advertise that i am a woman, and see if it generates any more interest. will have to get back to you on that.

most of my experience with gender bias has come from employers and coworkers. and i think part of it stems from the fact that each company has their "system" and that it was set up by a guy, and evolved thru guy employees, and sometimes its a way of doing things that is not particularly suited to being a girl. so they view you (the woman) as not being able to 'do the job', instead of adapting the system. there are after all a variety of ways to do a job.

i think this will change, and i think it will happen sooner rather than later. and i think the qualities that women bring to the job are becoming recognized and valued. they tend to make excellent employees in that they tend to be punctual, good listeners, detail oriented; they tend to care about safety, and they have frequently been drawn to tree work due to their love of trees. thus they tend to be better educated arborists.

if we could only get more women to try their hands at climbing and working in trees i think we'd be in great shape as an industry to bring more gender balance into it. everyone would benefit.
 
Hey Hey more of that attitude! Our company has had 3 women in the last 3 years and it has been great for morale and productivity. Unfortunately, two have left the industry and the third has gone to work for hydro at $40 hr and we just can't compete with that. Always welcome anyone who wants to learn this biz
 
I've always thought women have the potential to climb better than men; they can be almost as strong, with half the body weight. Their bodies are better balanced; men tend to be top-heavy.
 
My situation is a little different in the fact that we are a husband/wife team. So I don't run into bias within the work force.
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David is very well aware of what I can, and cannot, do.

Every once in awhile we will run into the person who can't seriously communicate with a woman and at that point I take a back seat, write up the notes and let David do the talking. But everyone relates to others differently. There are just as many who will prefer to relate to me and then David takes a back seat (I still take the notes
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) but he is fine with letting me do the talking as well.

I am asked many times if I climb as well, and whereas I can, I am not the climber David is so our system is him up the tree...me on the ground.

We live in a rural, farming community where extended families have worked together for generations; the wife right along side the husband. Many of these women are forces to be reckoned with and so they appreciate our working together as a team.

I have noticed many times also, that having a woman on the team allows a single female homeowner a nonthreatening person to relate to and they will often open up and relax.


Sylvia
 
If I know there is a single female owner, especially older, who I know I have to give an estimate to, I will ask my wife to come along also. Yes there is that comfort level and seems most of the time they develope some type of repoir. It seems on the jobs she helps with more of the compliments are directed toward her and how a woman can run a saw. Of course the cleanup part too.
 
Hello all!! I too have come accross some of the same things being a woman in the feild. Sometimes when I go do a estimate you can tell by the look on a mans face that he is surprised then I get Oh I didnt know women do this type of work. I just laugh it off and say yes sir we sure do. Then sometimes when people call in if im in the office the secretary will answer a call and when she ask me if I will be in that area the man on the phone will say "does she know what she is doing?" Its so funny. I would say the gay community welcomes me the most no funny looks no sny comments and I hope this dont affend no one I am not gay but I love gay people they are the best no judging and they are themselves. Women also alot of times say its so good to see a woman in this field. When it comes to my co workers of course I had to fight my a$$ off to get to where I am at and had to be a Bich at times to prove I could do the job just as good as the guys and for the most part there is only one guy that always gives me a hard time but you know what thats his childish ways he gets me so angry sometimes I could spit fire but what he dont know is his ignorance is one of the things that motivates me.Also in this area being a woman doing tree work is harder to get a date its almost like the guys are intimidated or something.I love my job and cant see myself doing anything else.
 
I can relate to a lot of the sentiments here!

I also do training and in around 100 students so far I've only had 3 women...the look on guys faces when I turn up to conduct chainsaw training can be priceless! Nevertheless, once they see that I know what I'm doing,and am confident, they soon chill out. Chain ID and sharpening quietens the 'know it alls'!
Out on tree work practical I flop a few big trees for them to work on breaking down, and they soon realize its not as easy as it looks...
I have done training for a lot of the roadside maintenance crews (the hack and slash gang unfortunately) and almost every week I drive by somewhere where they are working and they sing our 'hey teacher!' at the top of their voices as I go by!

Some of the funny moments...the power company guy who was working near me in a bucket while I was climbing...eyes open wide, look of disbelief...'it's a GIRL up here' was shouted down to his buddy.

I can honestly say I have never had any overt discrimination because of gender as a tree surgeon, I get more comments on my small size than anything and I got more grief when I was in commercial landscaping...maybe the fact of a running chainsaw in your hands puts people off...?

Oh, I remember one chap in the UK, I was conducting maintenace and crosscutting assessments, he was a real git..all 'love' and 'sweetie'...thought he could sweet talk his way through...ha, he couldn't sharpen a chain worth jack...NOT competent...he was Pi$$ed!!!
 
For the most part all is good with my company. We are a husband and wife team. When a new person works with us, I ususally go out with the crew to help the newbie acclimate themselves to our company or explain chipper safety, knots etc. This is where I run into problems. The newbies see me in the office and do not trust my opinion in the field. I usually have to prove myself for about a 1/2 hour and then they come around. A personal trainer is a good thing in this business and by the end of the day they realize that I have given them many tailgate safety meetings. The customers I don't have any problem with. The vendors not in the arboricultural field (auto dealers, etc.) is where I have the most problems. I went to buy a truck and was told that the "little women" should bring her man the next time she comes in!! I promptly bought a truck from someone else!! That is the worst of it and it was in the early 90's, since then I have not had any problems. Or maybe I just ignore them and go on with my plans....either way, I try not to let gender get in the way.
 
Quick story to add to this thread:
I was out doing a few removals not very long ago, and I came to the job totally geared up. I was with two guys, and one went to the truck to get a chainsaw. I yelled that I already had his saw. The customer heard me, and immediately looked around for the girl. (I guess I blended in?) He asked me a series of questions, and didn't seem to believe that I could do it until I was actually in a tree with a chainsaw, cutting limbs. I wasn't really bothered at all, until he had to ask a "man" to confirm exactly what I had told him. (Questions about throw line). I let it pass.
Around my university, I am pretty well accepted as the girl who climbs trees, and get questioned about tree work from my professors and other students.
The only person who hates what I do, and is convinced I am doing "man's work" is my brother.
I love working in trees, and I don't really care who thinks that I shouldn't do it based on my gender.
I got into a pretty good debate with a guy in the business one day about the man vs woman in tree care. He claimed that a woman was probably less capable of dragging the same amount of brush as a man. I actually agreed with him, saying that men have greater muscle mass pound for pound, but perhaps a female could compensate for this with other areas, like being more organized, more safety oriented, and less likely to do hazardous things, which in the long term could save a company lots of money. Any thoughts? Oh, and these are generalizations, not specific to every case, and I don't mean to stereotype in any way.
 
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He claimed that a woman was probably less capable of dragging the same amount of brush as a man. I actually agreed with him...

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It all depends on the man and the woman, doesn't it?

Whereas I would hate to have to prove this today, at 57, it wasn't that long ago that I could work right there with any guy. And several customers had commented on the fact that if they had someone like me, they could have dispensed with half of their crew.

Work ethic...it's all about work ethic. David taught me well and we work well together. You hit the job, and you work. That's what it is called, that's what it's about.

I don't carry as big of an armload of brush as a man would, but what many women have is stamina. That makes up for the brute strength. Muscling your way through a job wears you out. Pacing can keep you going longer.

I am not a climber and have no desire to handle a saw in a tree all day. This has nothing to do with my gender. David has taught me to climb, but that is not the same. He is a firm advocate of women climbing and believes they make superior ones. It does take strength. All aspects in our work do. But it doesn't take being the strongest person out there. It takes strength combined with skill and talent and a desire and aptitude to do what you are trying to accomplish.

Sylvia
 
while it has been just recently I've gotten interested in tree work, my wife has been the cut person in our shed building business for years. She gets treated with so much bias on our jobs sometimes I would just like to tell them to buy from someone else. It is not till the end of the job they see she can run a saw, nailer, and tape as well as anyone.

One time at the end of a job the customer (who had never said anything prior) walked up to her to apolagize. He said he never said it out loud, but he never thought a woman could do what she did. Gave her a hundred dollar tip and said she could buy me lunch if she wanted.
 
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...looked around for the girl. (I guess I blended in?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't feel bad...it happens to most of us.

Quick story:

We were working at an private assisted living facility. David is up the tree and I am dragging brush. A little old lady comes out of the rec room, hobbling along with her walker.

I, appalled, rush over and ask her to go back inside for safety reasons. She says, very politely mind you, that she will as soon as she asks me a question. "I have $2 riding on this bet." She says. "Are you a girl or a guy?"

You really can't blame them when you wear helmets, sunglasses, baggy clothes that appear filthy and disheveled 10 minutes after you start the job and your "perfume du jour" is Chainsaw Mix.

Sylvia
 
Excellent thread everyone! I've felt at every interval of my carreer the importance of having more women in the field. I don't mind working with all men but there's a particular balance that's created when a woman is in the mix. My most rewarding period was when I was working with my sister from '99-2001. It was much deeper than having a woman's insite though. It was probably the privilege of enhancing my relationship with my sister whom I love dearly. Working with Cathy Holzer was a very big deal too. I'm also working with the first female chairperson of any tree clibing championship and too me these are but a few major highlights of my life and career in the industry. In customer relations, men do not always have the tenderness that can calm sometimes intense moments on the phone or in the field. JMO so don't flame me...
 
i am lucky most of my clients feel really good that there is a woman in charge per say, and i own the company. i have as sylvia has stated been asked are you a guy or girl because with all your safety gear on it is hard to tell. i find the men are pretty respectful and i really enjoy this field. i have never had any bad feed back or been turned down for being a female arborist.
 
I find that working with my own group of peers is great. They all know what I am capable of and have a deep appreciation as what my skills bring to the table. I am not going to outhall a man when dragging bush, but I may figure a way around that....Being in the field and also in the office with men is sometimes trying, because they wonder about my capabilities. I find that I just continue to do what I do best and it all works out in the end...I have had the priviledge of working with many great men and women, but I would like to extend my deepest appreciation for men like my husband, the whiz (just to mention a few) for treating me like a co-worker not a woman in the field or in the office. I sincerely respect their abilities and they respect mine, thus we are an excellent team!! So I thank the whiz for his kind words regarding us women and my husband for supporting whatever I have tried to do or completed.
 
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