Got that sickening call no one ever wants to get.

[DSMc]

Great post, Kevin! I completely agree with everything you said.
Absolutely can't stand knots on the end of my ropes.

 

[southsoundtree]

what does the knot in the rigging lines do? also in case your rope is too short?

I do it as a habit. Never causing a problem, and taking a few seconds.

If you get to the bottom end of the rigging line, there is a physical obstruction to hit a hand before the end slides through your hand.




I've heard way more stories of someone going off their ropes in tree and rapelling situations than having trouble with knots jamming in emergencies.

As I am almost always on SRT, and frequently in tall trees, sometimes transferring tree to tree, this works for me.


My plan is always to have my tail on the ground. If the chipper is running, I sometimes bag and carry my rope.



Reg has said never to trust your safety to others, which rings true to me. The most dangerous situations that I've been in have been as a result of others' actions.

What Kevin says makes a lot of sense, too.




Coming from a rock climbing background, long enough ropes can't happen on long routes. Part of how I cut my teeth in the vertical world.

 

[DSMc]

...
I've heard way more stories of someone going off their ropes in tree and rapelling situations than having trouble with knots jamming in emergencies....

My opinion on this 'truth' is in the magnitude of the event being news worthy. A jammed line is most often nothing more than an annoyance. Whereas coming off the end of a climbing line, more often than not, has serious consequences.

 

[RyanCafferky]

I work in the northwest in big trees and like Kevin can’t stand stopper knots. I use the right rope for the job and on some of my ropes have splices in both ends that my mechanicals won’t go over but rarely if ever throw a knot on the end. I’ve had the knots in tails jam causing more headaches than help. 300’ DRT lines used to be a consistent tool in the toolbox but now just 200’ lines for DRT and 300’ lines for the jobs when working big trees.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Damn. Sorry to hear about your climbers fall. Glad it wasn’t worse.

You may have stated this explicitly but this climber is more or less on SRT always and uses Ddrt for an occasional repel, more or less? Just notice a trend for climbers who haven’t had the experience with double rope in failing to realize the extra consideration as to rope length. It’s something I kind of lost sight of over the years as a SRT climber. But I have never seen stopper knots employed by any of the climbers I’ve seen.

 

[evo]

Im down a hand as i just had carpel tunnel surgery yesterday afternoon..
He is doing great, still cant believe it.
I swelling should be down by tomorrow and ill fill in more.

Yes x2 thing that went wrong were not having enough line to reach the ground, and no knot.
His SRT base tie tip was ~ 60' (200' line)... His Ddrt system was 120' of line...
Would have been fine if he used the shorter line for access and the longer as a working line.

lots of woulda coulda would have prevented this.

 

[Scheffa]

Glad he is ok.
I’m in the anti knot camp as well.
Would it be possible to design a streamlined type clamp that had tapered ends so wouldn’t get caught in the tree but large enough not to pass through devices??
Kinda like the things you see clamped round tv power cords

 

[Mick Dempsey]

I’m not anti knot, I’m not pro knot.
I am a short roper, so I tend to put a knot in when I’m near the end and still working around the tree.

Not right but its what I do.

 

[DSMc]

As previously stated, running off the end of a too short moving rope system, is a known shortcoming within that system. Solutions, such as using a long enough rope (the best) or knots (annoying) in a short line are appropriate.

Other than the historical relevance or old work habits, the change to stationary rope systems and techniques would seem a better alternative.

 

[RyanCafferky]

Other than the historical relevance or old work habits, the change to stationary rope systems and techniques would seem a better alternative.

This is just a personal preference thing like boxers or briefs, oil or watercolor, Stihl or Husqvarna, paleo or vegan, vaccine or no vaccine. All of us are artists that paint with different strokes and different brushes. Personally I love climbing in a “historically relevant” manner and am perfectly safe doing so. Just like with many of the various soap box issues of the day we all just have to appreciate that the way we do something is just that. It is the way WE choose to do it. Not morally or otherwise superior because we and a chosen few embrace it and everyone else is “stuck in their old ways”.

SRS is great for certain things and for certain people they can and will make it work for every climbing situation. I’m glad that they love it that much.

 

[evo]

SRT is great, but has many drawbacks in big conifers other than access..
He ascended srt on a access line. Used the long one for that, and tailed a Ddrt rope.. Thought I mentioned that. Reflecting on it there were a number of mistakes made, or situations that would have prevented it from occurring.