Getting back on top of a limb

LordFarkwad

LordFarkwad

Branched out member
Location
Chatham Co.
A couple of scenarios I wanted to run by you guys. In both cases, there are no nearby limbs that can be used for support. If there were, then I could just pitch a lanyard end over it and pull myself up, done.

1) Limb-walking SRT and fall to the side of the limb. How do you get back up onto the limb without going back to the stem, ascending back up and starting over again? Are you guys all muscley brutes who can simply pull yourselves back up on top of the limb using the climb line? Any time I've been in this situation, getting back on top is either impossible or real ugly (i.e., wouldn't want customer watching :D)

2) Getting back past a false crotch redirect (sling/biner out on the skinny part of a pine limb) without the SRT device being collapsed by pressure from the biner.

I limb-walked out from directly underneath a previously-placed redirect towards the skinny part of the limb and placed a sling/biner combo, slacked my climb line enough to clip the biner around the part above my Rope Runner. I then lowered myself down below the limb so that my weight was supported on the climb line which in turn was through the biner (not sure exactly how I did this, tbh, but I ended up down there where I wanted to be...). The angles worked out so that the redirect sling was being pulled directly back down the length of the limb it was placed on (winning!). I did my work and came back to this redirect.

That's where it got complicated. I struggled for a few minutes trying to grab the climb line above the biner and clipping my foot ascender on below my RR and advancing this way, but the biner was pushing down on the top of the RR since my weight was still effectively on the climb line below the redirect).

In this particular case, I happened to have an overhead limb available (it was pretty tiny, and I was about 15' from the stem, but offered enough support that I could throw my [throw-bag weighted] lanyard tail over and get it back down to me). But, I was thinking through the scenario where that convenient overhead support wasn't available.

I've read a few threads suggesting things like placing a prussik above the redirect, transferring weight to this, getting back on top of the limb, and then moving SRT device up the climb line (if I understand correctly). But I've not thought through this all the way, nor tried it, of course.

Girth hitch a loop runner on the limb to get a foothold?

Is there some technique I'm missing that would make getting back on top of the limb and past the redirect alot easier? I've mentally rehearsed placing feet on the limb while hanging below it (kind of ending up in an upside down posture), then pulling myself up using the climb line above the redirect, so that the climb line pulls me back towards the stem while there is no weight on the redirect itself. However, it seems like I'm missing something that would make this approach not workable. For example, if I did indeed try this, my body is going to travel back towards the stem (well, more precisely, towards plumb under the previous redirect) as I pull myself up since the redirect itself isn't offering support any more, with my weight on the main climb line above the redirect. I would need to lanyard-in out on the limb I'm trying to step up on to in order to counter the towards-stem pull of the climb line.

How do y'all do in cases like these?

Edit: Picture added for clarity
uBtBWab.png
 
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I avoid putting myself in situations where I need to use an excess of equipment that I wouldn't normally use. I don't often have a spare prussik, never a loop runner. I often have a hand ascender when trimming because I use one for ascent, so I could use it with my foot thether, which is a short piece of climbing line, to pull myself up onto a limb. I could use the spare biner I carry to connect it to my bridge, disconnect my multicender, remove the redirect once on top of the limb, reconnect my multicender, remove the hand ascender, then climb on. But usually I try to plan my climb to avoid as many of those type of situations as possible. Or, it might be quicker and easier just to go back to the trunk and retrieve my redirect. I always try to use retrievable redirects. I also don't really care if the customer thinks I look good, but I can understand that, lol.
 
RBJtree said:
I also don't really care if the customer thinks I look good, but I can understand that, lol.
Click to expand...

Just want to look as 'professional' (even if actual pros do sloth/monkey-looking crap all the time) as possible! Also, I may have mentally conflated 'looks unprofessional' with 'inefficient' because in my experience, these two often are found together. Whereas, something that looks more fluid may very well also end up requiring less energy expenditure.

Just to make sure I understand, you're saying that, with your weight on your multiscender, you connect your bridge above the redirect via foot tether and hand ascender, slack your multiscender, then climb on top of the limb using arm power? And then, after you are up on top, you disconnect and move your multiscender above the redirect, weight it, then disconnect your foot/hand rig and move on?

Edit: if I've understood that correctly, how is your body held in position out at the redirect you're ascending past, while your weigh is transferred via foot-tether/hand-ascender to the main climb line above the redirect? Are you held out there by the loop of climb line through the redirect that is formed when you slack your multiscender? I.e., the climb line would go up through your multiscender , through the redirect carabiner, then up to your hand ascender, effectively forming a temporary lanyard.
 
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Ronhayden said:
The few times I’ve been in that situation I’ve either used a loop runner on the limb that my redirect was on to take my weight off the system and remove the redirect or I’ll wrap my legs around limb, use muscle and hang on while I disconnect the redirect.
Click to expand...

And then you work your way back to the trunk underneath the limb?
 
I'm combing through this thread carefully and have read the first few replies, but haven't looked at Schultz in the vid: http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/getting-back-through-redirect.27980/

A potential 'gotcha' in my scenario is that, due to the smaller diameter of the branch the redirect is on (and also how far out on the limb the redirect is placed), I wanted to keep at least part of my weight on the climb line. Being able to transfer all weight to the redirect limb would definitely make it easier, but preference would be to pull myself on top of it via the climb line so that my PSP is still supporting me partly/mostly.
 
You really should look at THIS VIDEO and play with the retrievable redirect concept. There are tons of other retrievable redirect ideas out there, especially on this board. They can save you all sorts of headaches. Nobody can always look like an orangutan, effortlessly swinging through the tree tops, but nobody likes to look like a drunk monkey trying to hump an anaconda, either.

When in doubt, @yoyoman has probably made a video with a solution. His brain is broken, and it automatically thinks of ingenius solutions and ideas about climbing problems even when he's supposed to be on vacation. I suspect that we will never know how many of his brilliant ideas were conceived while he was sitting on the porcelain throne.
 
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If it's that hard to get back on top, chances are that you will save energy (and look smoother) by limb walking out on the bottom, and off to the side a bit.

Between gripping the limb with one hand and the rope with the other, you should be able to compress, swing, twist, and get your other leg up and over the limb with a heel hook motion. Then you can take in slack, then pivot so you're facing the right direction again. It is important to use core muscles instead of outer muscles. The forces on your bodies extremities should be on the ligaments, so straight arms are usually good. It's not just about strength, it's about levers and MA.
 
I'm not where I can look at a video right now, but will check it out, Jeff! Thanks.

@colb, I will give heel hooking a try and see what I can do from there. I'm not sure if I did try it and could only make limited progress or what. I was on a little bit of a time crunch and didn't really have time to stop and consider all my options either.
 
LordFarkwad said:
Added picture illustrating my understanding of your description, @RBJtree:

OKgLnRD.png

RR
foot tether
hand ascender
redirect runner
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Thats basicly what I'm saying. Its challenging to put it all into words. Your questions make me think about a lot of stuff that I usually do without thinking about much. How would I hold myself in place? Maybe a foot on the branch. I am very flexable and have really good balance.
 
RBJtree said:
Thats basicly what I'm saying. Its challenging to put it all into words. Your questions make me think about a lot of stuff that I usually do without thinking about much. How would I hold myself in place? Maybe a foot on the branch. I am very flexable and have really good balance.
Click to expand...

How long have you been doing this? I'm at the point where almost everything is the product of conscious thought. I would hope my physicality (i.e., brute strength) isn't what's limiting me. Now, endurance is another story altogether. Usually at the point these issues like I've mentioned come up, it's while returning to my PSP after working. So there is a distinct chance that fresh outta the gate I'd be able to do at least some of this.

I'm going to replicate this whole setup a soon as it stops raining here and try some stuff.
 
LordFarkwad said:
How long have you been doing this? I'm at the point where almost everything is the product of conscious thought. I would hope my physicality (i.e., brute strength) isn't what's limiting me. Now, endurance is another story altogether. Usually at the point these issues like I've mentioned come up, it's while returning to my PSP after working. So there is a distinct chance that fresh outta the gate I'd be able to do at least some of this.

I'm going to replicate this whole setup a soon as it stops raining here and try some stuff.
Click to expand...
I've been a full time climber for 17 years. It takes a couple years of full time climbing to really get used to it, in my experience and what I have seen from others. You will have encountered enough of the myriad situations in tree climbing enough times, if you climb a wide variety of trees, in about 1000 hours of climbing to get a good feel for how to handle the different situations, and enough experience to gain some comfort and confidence. That is also when you are most at risk statistically speaking because the new level of comfort and confidence often brings a little less caution. I learned on the job climbing ddrt/mrs on a tail tied hitch. I switched to a split tail after a couple years, but didn't start srt until last year. I learned how to climb anything that I needed to with nothing more than a rope and lanyard. Basics are very useful. Srt is so gear driven and has so much to learn, but all that gear and all the tricks won't get you good at basics, it might even keep you from developing good basics such as balance, strength, planning, because there is so much to learn and so many tricks to make things "easier". I don't have any apprentices, but if I did, they would learn to climb ddrt first and build basics until they had good confidence and skill and didn't need anything but a rope and a lanyard. Then everything else can be used more effectively and not as a crutch.
 
When limb walking you have to keep tension on rope outwards to put weight on rope and take weight off the branch vertically so branch isn’t tangentially loaded (causing it to droop). This is demonstrated in climbing comps with the plumb bob attached to branch and marshall’s record the lowest deflection of the branch.

When trying to get up you need to put tension weight somewhere as well as unload the redirect. So once you have reached redirect point need to attach lanyard or tail outboard of redirect and split weight with lifeline freeing up redirect to remove it whilst stationary.

Once removed it is instructed in Arborist courses that you don’t risk yourself with free swings back (make your own risk decisions in work but in an Arborist course you won’t pass by free swinging back from redirect to trunk etc) but depending on distance can use lanyard or tail of lifeline and pay it out with your hand to belay yourself back to trunk/next-redirect as long as there is some measure of control. Just choose a stub or crotch that your snap won’t get caught in once need to retrieve it...

In working smoothbarks I even just loop a line (lanyard or tail of lifeline) and grip in my fist tight to branch and use the tight loop as a brake, then just need to let go to move on.
 
how are falling off to the side?
should be no falling mb a swing is all
tip system and progress system on limb walk or crawl to your intended target
too much slack if you are falling. No?
 
Got asked to prune once with only a static line available so had to climb in such a way that any fall at all would only result in a pendulum swing. Made the climb interesting...
 
RopeShield said:
how are falling off to the side?
should be no falling mb a swing is all
tip system and progress system on limb walk or crawl to your intended target
too much slack if you are falling. No?
Click to expand...

When it happened the other day, the PSP was directly in line with the limb I was walking on, so I couldn't lean on the opposite side of the limb to stabilize myself and, eventually, I just fell off one of the sides; dramatically easier when being pulled to one side of the limb.
 
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