General questions regarding 12 strand hollow braid splicing

[BEH2202]

I have been splicing for several years now and have racked up quite a few double braid, three strand, and hollow braid splices. I would really like to do more hollow braid splicing. I have quite a few x-ring style projects that I would like to complete, but have been hesitant to pull the trigger due to my lack of knowledge, so here are my questions. . .

#1 What is the difference between a locked brummel and a brummel?

#2 If a brummel is just passing the end of a rope back and forth through its standing part how many passes are required to be considered adequate prior to burying the tail?

#3 How long should the bury be if you are just using brummels? The samson manual dictates 1 fid for class 1 and 2.25 fids for class two Locked Brummels. Are the bury lengths the same for brummels and locked brummels?

#4 Why does it seem like all of the rigging ring slings use brummels or locked brummels instead of straight bury eye splices?

#5 I understand that class 2 fibers are less resistant to heat than class 1 fibers, so I understand why it isn't used for rigging ring slings, but why are more block slings not made of Amsteel?

If any of you guys could help me get going on the right track I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Matt J Leppek]

 

[TimBr]

@BEH2202,

Maybe a message to @NickfromWI is in order. I think he may be one of the most experienced splicers on this forum.

@Worthaug might also be able to help, as he seems quite experienced in this area, also.

Tim

 

[Brocky]

From my understanding of things Brummell are just passing the tail back and forth two times but I always did three.

Locking has the tail passing through,than the other end passing through the tail.

Bury length on friction hitches can be 6-8" because there are two of them, something like lanyard ends I did longer like 8-10"

Lock brummels are more secure than straight brummels which are stronger. Plus the locked are shorter which is good for hitch cords. C
Class 2 ropes are too static for rigging. You need something that stretches.

Good luck with your splicing!

 

[BEH2202]

Thank you for the replies. I really appreciate all of your time.
To be more specific, I am trying to figure out how to attach a x ring to a piece of Tenex to make a straight sling. I am not sure whether to use a straight bury or locking brummel. I would like to hear the rationale behind someone's choice to go one way or the other.
I am also looking to make an "ultra" style sling out of Tenex or tREX. I am not sure if all of those pockets are created with brummels or locking brummels. Either way, I would like to find out the sequence or number of passes needed to be considered adequate. I would also like to hear the rationale for why you would go one way or the other.
The reason that I ask about Amsteel is that Treestuff has a whoopie and a loopie offering in Amsteel, but to my knowledge there is no dead eye offering. I was just wondering why that is. I know that the Samson instruction manual lists a 60% rating for its whoopie made from Amsteel. That leads me to believe that the locking brummel shown in the instructions is what reduces the rating. If any of you guys have an idea as to why that is the case I would love to learn more.

Thanks again.

 

[Worthaug]

The dead eye ring sling out of tenex should be a locking brummel. This is important because it locks the ring in place. Straight bury in this case would cause undue stress on the lockstitching.
The ultra slings require three brummels for each pocket, the first pair become locking and the third (which mimics the first) makes each pocket symmetrical.
Dead eyes made of amsteel should be with a locking brummel, which does reduce its strength but a 5/16" amsteel dead eye with that strength reduction still mates well with a 1 ton block and 1/2" double braid for a SWL system. Amsteel is light and crazy strong but is very static so use it wisely in rigging scenarios.

Reed Wortley
CTSP #01739
ISA CA #SO-6953A

 

[TimBr]

I don't know jack about splicing, @Worthaug, but that was an amazing post.

Tim

 

[BEH2202]

Thanks for all the good information. I'll put up some pics when I get them done.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[NickfromWI]

Good questions. Let me see if I can hit them. Tell me what y'all think!

#1 What is the difference between a locked brummel and a brummel?

Reg brummel: tail through the standing a few times then gets buried
Locking brummel: tail through standing end, standing end through tail, then bury tail back into standing end.

#2 If a brummel is just passing the end of a rope back and forth through its standing part how many passes are required to be considered adequate prior to burying the tail?

Depends on the manufacturer's directions, the fibers, etc.

#3 How long should the bury be if you are just using brummels? The samson manual dictates 1 fid for class 1 and 2.25 fids for class two Locked Brummels. Are the bury lengths the same for brummels and locked brummels?

No fair. Question 3 is two questions!
3A) yes- if not doing a locked splice, then yes, do the full recommended bury tail.

3B) in the locking brummel, you can shorten the bury. It's not super clear in the literature. Maybe 1/2 fid? The lock IS the splice.

#4 Why does it seem like all of the rigging ring slings use brummels or locked brummels instead of straight bury eye splices?

Tree climbers generally agree that security is more important than brute strength. So ring or no ring, you'll almost always see locked brummels on our gear.

#5 I understand that class 2 fibers are less resistant to heat than class 1 fibers, so I understand why it isn't used for rigging ring slings, but why are more block slings not made of Amsteel?

There's a lot more to it than that. Class 2 fibers, aka high mod fibers, encompass many fibers, all of which are crazy strong and very low stretch. Their heat resistance is all over the map, ranging from 275° F up to like 900° F.

There's a lot to be said about having a little bit of energy absorption in your rigging slings. And polyesters (Yalex and tenex) are much more affordable, too.

 

[BEH2202]

Thank you sir. That certainly answered my questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Treebobb]

In my experience Amsterl doesn't make a good dead eye sling. Have you noticed how "slippery" it is? It doesn't grip itself very well which is why for splicing you need longer buries. Tying your dead eye sling with a cow or timber hitch will tend to walk a lot more than non high mod fibers. I find that the small cordage doesn't grip bark as well and will eat right down through the bark where it is wet and more slippery.

 

[rope-a-dope]

amsteel will grip better inside of chafe tubing or with a piece on the eyes for choked rigging points. my favorite crane slings were these two amsteel eye&eyes with shackles. toss and twist noknot style.