Employee Equipment

L

Leafguy

New member
Just wondering what you expect your climbers to provide for climbing equipment? I currently supply everything. I have one climber and 1 aspiring climber on staff.

Thanks
 
I was actually really thinking about this lately..... I feel like I try hard to keep tabs on gear but I can't all of the time. Im curious if anyone allocates a certain hourly, weekly, monthly etc. monetary value to cover employees having all of their own climbing gear. Im talking about climbing gear and PPE only. Not rigging supplies or large saws. Many other trades expect nothing less, my PM mechanic has probably $75k in tools and makes less than any of my foreman. Thoughts?
 
I think legally the employer is responsible fo supplying all safety related equipment. However I never have had that experience, and I’ve never known any different. We would get paid more, and some random treats like new saw blades here and there. I would bring everything but my saw, except for one guy, where I brought my saws (but I also was paid very very well)
 
Jasonk said:
I was actually really thinking about this lately..... I feel like I try hard to keep tabs on gear but I can't all of the time. Im curious if anyone allocates a certain hourly, weekly, monthly etc. monetary value to cover employees having all of their own climbing gear. Im talking about climbing gear and PPE only. Not rigging supplies or large saws. Many other trades expect nothing less, my PM mechanic has probably $75k in tools and makes less than any of my foreman. Thoughts?
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I'm leaning towards something like this. Most other trades provide some or there own basic tools as employees. Carpenter provides hammer, tool belt, tape measure, level etc. Even having the climber provide a handful or carabiners, hitch climbing system, some ppe. Pride of ownership may also change there attitude towards care of equipment.

If I start asking this of my staff I would come up with a tool allowance or something.
 
You might also want to try making them stakeholders in the equipment retention and preservation process. Figure out how much you spend on their gear in a years time..or semi annually..however you figure it based on the size of your operation...calculate not just the purchase price, but the cost of time you have to spend ordering it or driving to pick it up as well as lost revenue when work doesn't get done or doesn't get done as quickly because gear is broken. Add it all together and assign a dollar value. Set another dollar value for what you think would be a reasonable target figure, if everyone is taking good care or their gear. Offer to split the difference between those two figures with your employees at the end of that financial interval in a bonus check. Now your employees have an extra reason to take good care of the gear you provide to them.
 
You are supposed to provide all the ppe including climbing gear but that can be a 4d saddle 3 strand rope and steel snaps. Obviously that is not fun or efficient. Lots of companies I have heard give you the basics of your choosing and then a stipend yearly. I do like the idea of the bonus if you don't lose/break gear instead of just getting written up for it.
 
If Im providing an allocated amount of money for PPE than Im providing it. Its not about not wanting to pay for the equipment its about making employees accountable for their own gear.
 
Jason, why is it difficult to keep track of all the gear? Can there be a system put in place, or responsibility specifically set-up for an employee to be accountable for gear, in a reasonable way (for example, a laminated inventory card and easy storage system, be that a bin, crate, or bag. Only climbers handle their own assigned gear, or the other employees attach it in some way to the climber's gear bag).
 
I've had my own for most of my career. The company provided equipment but it was so basic and ergonomically sucked! Now, if I need replacement of parts of my system my employer usually covers it. PPE for sure. I think it comes down to what you want to model in your work place. Is it emphasizing cost or safe work practices?
 
My thoughts on this are: If your applying at my company for a climbers position....you better have your own gear. That gear better be in good shape, and of modern advances. If you are hired, you get a 400 dollar a year gear stipend to buy whatever gear you want that is extra. The company replaces whatever the climbers wear out and all their safety PPE.
The problem is you can quickly gobble up 20K in climbing equipment with all the fancy stuff they are pushing at these trade shows. How much of that sits in the bottom of your bag. I'm not paying for that. But you can and then I will reimburse you if you wear it out at work. Not neglect it....but wear it out.
 
We could, should and probably will put some kind of system in place regardless of who owns the gear. Part of the problem is that most of our gear stays in the trucks. This can create chaos when sometimes crews switch trucks. For a while we were unloading everything daily but its super time consuming.....Most all of my climbers have their own gear and I replace anything that wears out. I then buy all ropes, rigging gear, saws etc. We also provide uniforms and all PPE above and beyond any OSHA requirements. But different people want different stuff. Many of my guys don't wear their uniform pants and would rather buy their own chainsaw protective pants. An allocated amount would give them their freedom to buy what they want and they would be accountable for upkeep and replacement as needed.
 
Sometimes the cost of replacing used gear is less than the cost of preventing loss of used gear. Sorta like making things last forever by cleaning and maintaining them can be more costly than using them hard and replacing as needed, or burning up a rope to save a couple hours.

Tough when switching vehicles.

Something simple and not fool-proof, might help in a cost-effective way.

If its getting lost in the field, a tarp (or maybe two) as designated 'staging' areas for tools that aren't put back in the truck might help, along with hi-viz paint/ tape. I find it so much easier to always know where to find something, than looking around for where someone put something down.

Always clip/ attach things together, as a team plan. So easy to lose a loose $80 foot ascender. A lot harder to lose a scoop shovel, unless it is unmarked and ends up left out with some left out homeowner tools. Also prevents guys from grabbing the HO's rake, etc.




Rock climbers often used electrical tape to make biners/ hardware for ownership as it can be mixed with other's gear for a particular climb, or just accidentally at the base of a climb, or camp. I used nail polish, typically. This makes it easy for people to get gear back to people. Since I don't have this problem of mixing gear, being small, I use "lemon yellow" for life-support, and red tape for rigging gear.







I would suggest that there be a written policy that you provide all the necessary safety gear and tools, plus there is the opportunity for them to purchase above and beyond with a specific policy. What you do day to day might be 'chill' and works, like replacing any used gear. Just have a legal policy, then go above and beyond. Avoid any disgruntled, or injured employee from putting you in a situation.

I got a WC claim for my employee walking his face into the truck tool-box door. One of the first questions for the employee, on the form is if there was defective equipment. I think there was lacking safety equipment.

CYA.
 
I like the stipend idea. Any decent climber is going to start buying their own equipment but as an employee, it’s a pretty massive expense. I would have loved to work for someone who would have offset some of that cost.
I also think that you should have all PPE and climbing gear that someone needs to perform the work available. It might be fairly entry-level and as they progress they can take advantage of that stipend.
 
One of the issues is that as an employer these costs can add up quickly. Im 100 % about safety. But sometimes the keeping up with the jones in regards to clothing and climbing gear can be costly and doesn't always help to her the job done quicker or more efficient.
Their are 5 of us at my company. Multiply 2 or 3 pairs of chainsaw pants by 5, plus sena headsets that never seam to last, the new shoes, climbing gear for SRT, New fancy wind breaker jacket at 200 a piece....where does it end?
 
ROYCE said:
One of the issues is that as an employer these costs can add up quickly. Im 100 % about safety. But sometimes the keeping up with the jones in regards to clothing and climbing gear can be costly and doesn't always help to her the job done quicker or more efficient.
Their are 5 of us at my company. Multiply 2 or 3 pairs of chainsaw pants by 5, plus sena headsets that never seam to last, the new shoes, climbing gear for SRT, New fancy wind breaker jacket at 200 a piece....where does it end?
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When you retire!
Seriously though, instead of playing the keeping up with the Jones's game, have them do the research on new products and techniques. Then put together a cost benefit analysis to justify the adoption of new methodologies and gear. This will put them in your shoes and save you the argument. If they can show the value then it makes sense.

When you say your 100% about safety then do you compare the costs of those chainsaw pants to the cost of the accident, one time? If you think in terms of the break even point then those pants will be relatively inexpensive. 15 pairs at $300 would be $4500. What would be the increase in your WC rate over the next 2 to 3 yrs? Add to that the lost productivity, etc...

As for the new shoes and fancy windbreaker, that I'd put under marketing. What do you estimate the return is on the improved professional appearance of your crew? Does it give you a competitive advantage? I'm spitballing here but if you look at these items in the same vein as the logo on your truck (prone to being scratched up) and all the other marketing tools it then provides a better way to assess the value of those costs.

Perspective....
 
I own a small company as well, so I get that the costs add up. I keep a couple basic DdRT setups and a couple Ropewrench setups on hand for employees to use. If you want to customize your kit, that will end up being out of your own pocket. I do think PPE should be employee provided. I have Protos and Sena units available for everyone because they’re safer and increase efficiency (making me more money). I provide chainsaw pants because then I don’t have to spend my day reminding employees to put on chaps before making a cut and because I’m hoping I can prevent a serious injury. I do this stuff partly because I want to keep my employees happy, but also because a work stoppage due to an accident can quickly cost me far more than I spent on that PPE.
 
I think it depends honestly. For me as a climber, I rather supply my own gear because I'm comfortable with it. If you are a climber I would think you would have your own gear to begin with. As for regular employees like groundsman, etc., I think providing basic PPE is good and if they want to upgrade to something else on their own then that's their own choice.
 
ROYCE said:
One of the issues is that as an employer these costs can add up quickly. Im 100 % about safety. But sometimes the keeping up with the jones in regards to clothing and climbing gear can be costly and doesn't always help to her the job done quicker or more efficient.
Their are 5 of us at my company. Multiply 2 or 3 pairs of chainsaw pants by 5, plus sena headsets that never seam to last, the new shoes, climbing gear for SRT, New fancy wind breaker jacket at 200 a piece....where does it end?
Click to expand...
Hopefully it ends with solid applicants, longer term retention, decreased training costs, improved production and profit.
 
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