Do you think this year has been different for business?

[ATH]

Been reading lots of finance and market news recently, nothing new to those in the know. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hows-the-economy-it-depends-on-how-much-you-make-120011238.html

That subtitle is almost a non-starter: "...amid a stagnant labor market." 4.5% unemployment and that's been pretty consistent from 3.5-4.5% since covid unemployment "normalized". 4 - 6% is considered "full employment"

Do you know anybody looking for a job? (like seriously looking, not standing on the corner smoking weed talking about looking for a job) I know FAR more employers (most would be willing to take on some help even if not actively recruiting) looking for employees than people looking for work (I know of none....at least none who are willing to show up (step 1) sober (step 2) 5 days a week).

I see a lot of people complaining about wages, but they won't put their nose to the grind stone and work hard at one place. Sure, hire-in pay rates are ...well, hire-in pay rates like they've always been = low. If they stick around for more than a few months, wages would grow quickly. But they want to blow their first check getting blackout drunk over the weekend then its hard to get up Monday morning, so they quit and start over again somewhere else...complaining they aren't getting paid enough. Or somebody offends them, so they leave or transfer, etc...

 

[Serf Life]

I was more interested on the "Exacerbating the difference even further is the AI-fueled stock market rally. The richest 1% of households hold about 40% of equities, while nearly 50% is “held by the next 19% of earners,” Oxford Economics said in an analysis this week." and how the massive stock gains over the past five years are distributed. Labor wages are complained about and owners complaining about the complaints, but one can buy houses and businesses against stocks while paying no income tax. The increase in income disparity, and tangible asset ownership, growing this fast is wild. My clients will always want treework and can pay, as to this thread, and will continue to buy more properties in the area expanding my work and community's problems.

 

[ATH]

I was more interested on the "Exacerbating the difference even further is the AI-fueled stock market rally. The richest 1% of households hold about 40% of equities, while nearly 50% is “held by the next 19% of earners,” Oxford Economics said in an analysis this week." and how the massive stock gains over the past five years are distributed. ...

I thought that part about AI market rally interesting as well. I don't pay that much attention to the market. Didn't know that was the case. I guess I knew AI was enhancing decisions, but not that it is an "AI-fueled rally".

Without digging into it...is that AI making trading decisions...or rally fueled because there is a lot of investment into AI??? A lot of giant construction projects of data centers and the infrastructure to support the builds. Big investments into energy projects to power the data centers, etc...

 

[climbingmonkey24]

That subtitle is almost a non-starter: "...amid a stagnant labor market." 4.5% unemployment and that's been pretty consistent from 3.5-4.5% since covid unemployment "normalized". 4 - 6% is considered "full employment"

Do you know anybody looking for a job? (like seriously looking, not standing on the corner smoking weed talking about looking for a job) I know FAR more employers (most would be willing to take on some help even if not actively recruiting) looking for employees than people looking for work (I know of none....at least none who are willing to show up (step 1) sober (step 2) 5 days a week).

I see a lot of people complaining about wages, but they won't put their nose to the grind stone and work hard at one place. Sure, hire-in pay rates are ...well, hire-in pay rates like they've always been = low. If they stick around for more than a few months, wages would grow quickly. But they want to blow their first check getting blackout drunk over the weekend then its hard to get up Monday morning, so they quit and start over again somewhere else...complaining they aren't getting paid enough. Or somebody offends them, so they leave or transfer, etc...

Same, and I would say as the cost of living has risen maybe there is quite a bit of a lag with wages including starting pay rates.

On the other hand, I’ve also literally seen people say things like anything less than $100k+ a year isn’t worth their time, or that $80k a year is like McDonald’s salary.

Whatever happened to working your way up to a higher salary / better job and just being grateful to have work and pay the bills versus doing nothing instead. Not sure if people understand that the job you do now doesn’t necessarily have to be forever. But wouldn’t you rather have some income than no income?? Now granted, I will say I can understand how people could be frustrated if they never seem to be able to get ahead or are barely scraping by.

Also doesn’t factor in knowing how to budget and manage your finances. People living way above their means, etc.

 

[southsoundtree]

Do the people who say those things about pay rates have better offers?

 

[Chris Schultz]

@climbingmonkey24 @southsoundtree I don’t know if realistically I myself could survive as an employee right now honestly. Yeah owner op is fucking hard, but being an employee in todays economy….. I don’t know how it could be a sustainable life with the wages I’ve experienced, and lately seen posted on job boards. For transparency: I pay myself $42k +/- annually, I barely make it between paychecks on that, and there’s no savings for the future. Yes, business Capitol grows, and each year I scale where I can, so there is that. Today when I look back at my old tree service job (not that long ago) being the crew boss, the only climber, the only licensed CDL driver, equipment maintainer, basically the do all for the company, I’d bring home about 3200/month, where I live, that barley got me by respectably, with zero hope of owning anything resembling a home, shit no benefits, I was always a toothache away from homeless. (And so everyone knows: I’m not a drug addict or an alcoholic either, wasn’t then, still not now…. Haven’t touched illicit drugs or a drop of alcohol in nearly 14 years.) Looking back, it wasn’t worth the risk, the wear and tear on my mind/body, or my time on this earth. Yeah I enjoyed it (mostly), yeah the experience was great, but the risks, the breakdown of the body the strain on my mind and nervous system were way out of balance with the compensation. Just because it’s a cool job, doesn’t justify a shit paycheck.

 

[ATH]

I don't know you @Chris Schultz ...but I think you should be paying yourself more! I'd pay you more as an employee. Don't sell yourself short. You told the story in the other thread about holding your ground on your price for a specific job. Know that there are people really do recognize the value a knowledgeable & skilled person brings to the job.

I get reinvesting in your business, but you gotta invest in liquid savings as well...work towards at least 3, as a business owner, I'd aim for 6 months savings so you can weather the storm if there is a downturn. This is a discussion we have in the house regularly. Wife says "why do you need to buy that?" "to operate more efficiently, and it adds value to the business" "but what's the point of doing that, if we aren't making more?" I try to bump it up a little each year. There have been higher wage opportunities that I see, but not that I'd want. If I was in a different city/market, I could probably work for a large firm, earn $20-30K and have them paying benefits. But still not sure I want that.

Not trying to tell you how to do anything. Just suggesting you are worth more than you are charging (based on numbers from one post! ... so obviously not a deep dive)

 

[Chris Schultz]

I think my prices are on par with my market. I totally could draw more monthly if I wanted/needed…. But it’s a good practice in financial discipline. I mean, the money is really only moments away from one account to another. If I needed more it’s there I guess… I think I could make it 24ish(?) months if things came to a grinding halt, without liquidating any assets, or pulling from other investments. I’m kind of at a crossroads with my business things… do I equipment up? Stay bare bones and stack $$$$$$ for nest egg for an easy exit? I don’t know what to do… I never really intended on being a “business owner”, it was the only legitimate way I could stay living where I’m at, and continue to do what I enjoy.

 

[ATH]

24 months liquid is a little thick. If I might keep overstepping my place:
*If that's saved for equipment or other capitol investments, great. Always better to pay cash.
*If you aren't using it to invest in the equipment, what are you doing with it? You said "barely make it between paychecks on that, and there’s no savings for the future..." Now, obviously there are plenty of people making $200K "barely making it between paychecks" so spending fits in there too. But if you keep your spending similar, but have an extra few hundred a month the stress goes down. Maybe its a long-term exit strategy (retirement savings, for example)...

 

[Chris Schultz]

Equipment, rainy day funds, don’t really know to be honest. Maybe when the day comes I decide to close up shop, I’ve got a chunk of coin for the next move I guess….

 

[27RMT0N]

I never really intended on being a “business owner”, it was the only legitimate way I could stay living where I’m at, and continue to do what I enjoy.

Exact same thing for me, never wanted to run a business/be self-employed. And I'm single with no kids, so it's too easy for me to just say 'I'll put that money back into the business' instead of setting it aside for myself and my life outside of work.

 

[Chris Schultz]

Exact same thing for me, never wanted to run a business/be self-employed. And I'm single with no kids, so it's too easy for me to just say 'I'll put that money back into the business' instead of setting it aside for myself and my life outside of work.

I’m just padding the accounts. This time of the year gets tricky, gotta figure out what to buy, and how much to spend to shelter it from taxes…. Last year was the ctx 100, not sure how much I’ll need to spend, or what I’ll acquire this year.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

Don’t mean to derail the thread by getting a little off topic, but related to the subject of “being a business owner” does it ever get slightly frustrating when you try to get out to someone’s property asap to get them a quote, you feel like your presentation / assessment was on point, only to have them tell you they’re waiting on other quotes?

Definitely not saying that frustration is necessarily justified. From the perspective of a homeowner or property owner you certainly can’t fault someone for doing their due diligence and comparing offers.

On the other hand though, I suppose there are also times where it’s people just looking for the cheapest price.

I would also say that frustration may be more likely to occur if it’s a project you’d be looking forward to doing if you got hired.

From the wisdom of Yoda…

 

[Chris Schultz]

Man, that’s just part of the game we play. Shit like that used to bother me, you just can’t let it. Theres so many sides to that coin….. I’m not always convinced the jobs go to the fastest, or the cheapest bidder either. I feel many clients hire based off the energy you give off. At least that’s what my gut/intuition tell me. I know I’m not always the cheapest, but I can usually tell if it’s a landed job or not before I even give them a number. What I struggle with is the email or phone inquiries, where I don’t even meet them in person. On one hand it’s super convenient, show up at my leisure, not have their energy clouding my process, it’s easy…. But that can also frustrate me to a degree too: they put in the bare minimal effort to meet with or give details, these are the ones that are probably hiring purely off price alone…. BUT, some of these situations have turned into great repeat clients for me, that have NEVER balked at a price, or a suggested service. Lots of rambling words, to not really say anything I know….. I think people hire based off: reputation, your energy(who you are), trust, then price. In that order.

 

[evo]

Don’t mean to derail the thread by getting a little off topic, but related to the subject of “being a business owner” does it ever get slightly frustrating when you try to get out to someone’s property asap to get them a quote, you feel like your presentation / assessment was on point, only to have them tell you they’re waiting on other quotes?

Definitely not saying that frustration is necessarily justified. From the perspective of a homeowner or property owner you certainly can’t fault someone for doing their due diligence and comparing offers.

On the other hand though, I suppose there are also times where it’s people just looking for the cheapest price.

I would also say that frustration may be more likely to occur if it’s a project you’d be looking forward to doing if you got hired.

From the wisdom of Yoda…

View attachment 99792

I had this last week. Monday on my day off I got a ‘emergency’ call for a tree removal for a new community water line. It had a deadline of completion by the end of this week. I explained that I could only get it done last week as I have commitments I couldn’t get out of for this week.
They totally ‘understood’

So I drop what I was doing to run out for a quote, called (this is their second home) and they asked me to look at all this other shit too and provide separate quotes.
I submit them and it’s dead air, I call to remind them I need to know asap to work it into my schedule for the week. They said they are waiting for a second quote on Thursday! About a hour later they accepted.
Gear up to squeeze it in the next day, an easy flop and drop. They fucken cancel around lunch time because the water guys will now be dealing with the tree..

 

[data farm 26]

No good deed goes unpunished!

On the other hand, I've seen several company owners who are complete assholes to their customers (and everyone else for that matter.) Rude and dismissive, condescending and irresponsive. Yet, are very successful. Some people actually like to be talked down to it seems like. Or want to be "put in their place" or some weird shit like that.


Homeowner consumer psychology is some weird and twisted shit, I'm really glad to be getting away from interfacing with that.

 

[Serf Life]

About a hour later they accepted.
Gear up to squeeze it in the next day, an easy flop and drop. They fucken cancel around lunch time because the water guys will now be dealing with the tree..

You know sometimes the phone just doesn't work, or connection goes iffy all of a sudden. Then the rake breaks so no cleanup, but beaucoup bill.

 

[evo]

You know sometimes the phone just doesn't work, or connection goes iffy all of a sudden. Then the rake breaks so no cleanup, but beaucoup bill.

Thought about not responding and just cutting the thing down. ‘Twas a lil hybrid maple, maybe 12” DBH and the specks were to put it in the mulch pile. Literally where the crown would have fallen, so just lumping a few rounds 10’
Literally 20 min tops with one saw.

The angel on my shoulder won on that one..

 

[Tree Ops]

Looks like I’m on track to make about the same as previous years. However it’s been a lot more expensive to run the business this year. ThankfullyI had a lot of my core clients come through with larger projects. We also had a wildfire in the the area that generated some new revenue. Without those two things it would have been my slowest year to date.