Degree vs. experience and certifications

freeclimber00

freeclimber00

Location
Montana
I have a few questions for the folks that work in the Municipalities across the country.

I have been given a heads up on a City Forestry Foreman position that may open up in the next year or so and have been told to apply for the position by another key player in the Forestry Div.

The problem is that I know of another person with a related Degree that will certainly be applying for the same position, when it's posted. I am sure there will be others as well, but those are variables one has to deal with. This will be a competitive interview, no doubt.

So here is the thing. I have 26yrs in the trees, ISA cert. with a Utility cert. to go along. Obtaining the Municipal Cert. wouldn't be an issue, but would it be enough? I do not have a College Degree, nor any Municipal experience. I have done a substantial amount of Contract trimming for the city, and 5 yrs. of Regional Management experience under by belt. Managing 12 crews on average not to mention it is like operating a full franchise you could call your own. Business owners know what it's like, it is up to you to keep it going and keep everyone working 40 hrs. a week.

The big question is, would 26yrs. experience and a BCMA Designation compete with an AA or BA Degree and in a related field with, say, under ten years of private tree experience?

I am fighting myself trying to avoid the degree only on the account that it would be a $10.00 an hr. cut in pay and a $20,000 debt in the end. Economically it makes no sense. Even the wage and benefit package I have now is better than that position has. The benefit of that job is that I want the position. My body is taking a turn south and my mind needs a new stimulus. I believe that I could make a huge difference in the Forestry Dept. with the budget that they have. It get's thrown away right now and nothing gets done. This position is right up my alley and there is a lot of room to improve the program.

The next question that is very relevant is, who does the interviews for a position like this?
I have good relationships with all in the Forestry Dept. except the Foreman. It is always a little on edge with him, but not with just me, it's everyone.
My thoughts are that if people within the Forestry Dept. or the Tree Board, do the interviews, I would have a heck of a better chance at this, without the Degree. On the other hand, if the Mayor and City Counsel or the like, do the interviews and application reviews, would they give just merit to the BCMA and the experience? Or would they look over it like it was a Drivers Lic. and see a Degree on the table and take that Degree as the almighty trump?
I have enough time to before the job is expected to post, to get an Associates Degree. The bad part about that is that it would be in some kind of Business Fundamentals or the like. It would not be in Forestry, Ag, or Hort. I say this because the AA Degrees are limited for the online schooling. Not to mention I believe that I would have to go for a BA to get any value out of a major like that. Not to mention, I don't have time nor do I care to spend that mush money for a pay cut, moving, selling my home etc.
I have talked to all of my friends about this with little good insight. This board has a resounding amount of expertise and experience. I need facts and insight from the Municipal guys/gals out there.

Thanks for any help you can offer. I will check back in tomorrow and answer any question then. Thanks a ton.

Fire away.
 
Maybe use the press releases and other info ISA has on BCMA to show people what it's worth (if you have/get it?)

Get the Muni Cert; it's relatively cheap and easy.

Don't sweat the college, just show how your experience is valuable.

As a consultant, towns have never asked me about the lack of college degree in my cv, and the BCMA impresses them (as well it dam should!)

My body also took a turn south, then it went north, so don't give up on yours yet!
 
From what I've heard in talking to others in the municipal field I would think that who you know in the municipality and how well you fit into their old boys club is going to matter more than what you can bring to the table.

I've thought about going to work for a municipality myself because at times I have craved the feeling of security that type of employment would provide. What it comes down to though is that I will never fit into that model. High production and doing stuff in the most efficient manner with the fewest number of people is how I like to do things. Square peg, round hole. What shape are you and what shape is the hole you are trying to squeeze into? What shape peg is the other applicant? Whoever fits in easiest, knows the most people, and makes the least waves is likely going to be the choice.
 
I just made this move 8 months ago. It took A LOT of change for
me to slow down to the city speed. Still adapting matter of fact. I
also did contract work for this city and that was a huge bonus. They
wanted me but still had to post the position and there were some
good candidates that I was up against. I didn't have my arb cert
they are giving me time to obtain it. Sometimes I regret making
this move but then I get off at the same time everyday, vac, sick,
paid holidays, education reimbursement retirement and then
things are clear. To make up for lost pay I do some side work
and contract climbing. Rain or shine, still working.
 
I have a M.S. degree, and the only time that has come into precedence within this field (other than a few other minor instances) over my BCMA is when I taught at the local Univeristy. I'm not saying my 6 years of college weren't valuable, because I use that education every day in many different fascists. But if you apply and can convey exactly what you just did above, any reasonable employer will snatch you up in a hurry.
I think your only hiccup, which you have no control over, is who does the interviewing and their relative life experiences in how they view Higher Ed. versus real life education. The piece of paper helps in some industries and jobs, but in no interview does it trump your ability to sell yourself and convince the interviewer why YOUR valuable and not your piece of paper.

Good luck!
 
Good poat re communicating confidence.

" I use that education every day in many different fascists. "

Does that mean you teach neonazis?

sorry couldn't resist.
 
Very well said guys. I think that the good ol' boy system fits here very well, maybe that is why I got the wink and the request to apply. I am very well be putting more thought into this than it needs. Selling myself in an interview would be key, I just have to make it through the selection process.
With regards to getting picked up by anybody looking, yes I can go just about anywhere and get a job because my credentials carry weight to those that understand their value. My concern is that somebody with out that value in the city may be handling that selection process. Somebody like a clerk, would be the worst. A clerk would have a minimum requirements list and go by that and grant no merit to the rest of it.
In this neck of the woods there is, in my opinion, far too much credit given to college degrees. It is a college town and in some establishments you have to have a degree in something to sling whiskey for $8.00 an hr., literally.
It is out of hand, there are a lot of graduates that want to stay here and willing to take a normal underpaid job, just to live here. In that respect, there are a lot of college grads in the area, that are unemployed, so the job market supports it and the grads are willing. So it is becoming a norm to make a degree a prerequisite.

I don't currently have my BCMA, but I will spend my efforts going that direction. I have had the credits to test for a few years now and just need to work on the municipal end of things, to understand better the administrative end of it as well as a few other domains. I believe that joining a town tree board would offer a lot of value as well. I may be going above and beyond to some people, but that is my nature, I like to make sure that I have the best chance. I haven't applied for a job for 17yrs (yes same employer)so changing scenery doesn't come lightly.

Any other last input will be greatly appreciated and won't be taken lightly.

Thank you.
 
Interesting post.

I've concluded its not what you know, its who you know in these situations. And being over ambitious can work against you unfortunately.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Good poat re communicating confidence.

" I use that education every day in many different fascists. "

Does that mean you teach neonazis?

sorry couldn't resist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doah! There you have the problem with not being good at spelling and trying to let spellcheck do the leg work.
tongue.gif
 
Many of the questions you're asking us can be asked of the municipality. Speak frankly to key people, specially those who feel you should be applying. While it may appear to be black and white where education and experience are pitted against each other, it isn't.

The key is how you present it. Be sure you focus attention on the strength of your experience as it relates to their specific needs as they've described them.

The point made above about fitting the mold can't be understated. While you may see waste and low productivity, they see adherence to strict work protocols.

Ask them why they are filling this job and what are the key issues that the new hire will be tasked to deal with.

It's all about you being able to fit the role as they see it. If you can show this consistently on paper and in person then it may be yours readily despite the degree bearing competition.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Many of the questions you're asking us can be asked of the municipality. Speak frankly to key people, specially those who feel you should be applying. While it may appear to be black and white where education and experience are pitted against each other, it isn't.

The key is how you present it. Be sure you focus attention on the strength of your experience as it relates to their specific needs as they've described them.

The point made above about fitting the mold can't be understated. While you may see waste and low productivity, they see adherence to strict work protocols.

Ask them why they are filling this job and what are the key issues that the new hire will be tasked to deal with.

It's all about you being able to fit the role as they see it. If you can show this consistently on paper and in person then it may be yours readily despite the degree bearing competition.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said! I will pay heed to that advice and asking them about there directions and needs is sound. That question will never be forgotten.

Thank you.
 
From my experience your foes are nepotism and the must hire from with in/player goes to coach bs.
Best of luck but don't expect anything disappointment is a beotch.
 
I drew my bow on a 380" 7x7 bull elk Saturday and had to let down, do to him stepping out of a dead spot in the wind. Wind blowing 40mph everywhere, but in this hole. Wicked cross wind and 40yrds, just not a good choice to let the arrow go.
I know disappointment.....I bow hunt.

I know nepotism all to well.....around here they call it the "good ol' boys".
 
Good on you for letting down. Sign of a true sportsman! You still haven't responded to my PM. I may have some good info for you, don't know.
 
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