Cranes when you do not need them?

Lifting trusses by hand is awkward. That is a crane job. Trees often can be loaded straight from above with a gravity assist. Yet people would still break out the crane because they can and charge extra for the show. That's basically irresponsible. More property damage, traffic issues, fuel wasted and hazard created.
 
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Lifting trusses by hand is awkward. That is a crane job. Trees often can be loaded straight from above with a gravity assist. Yet people would still break out the crane because they can and charge extra for the show. That's basically irresponsible. More property damage, traffic issues, fuel wasted and hazard created.

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crane= a faster job with less traffic issues in and out vs rigging all day, less fuel because chipper runs a lot less and often you take a log truck right out of the picture, and reduced property damage because wood almost never hits the turf and is set down gently behind the chipper. only cleanup is a 20x20 spot behind the chipper. hazard created? less time on spikes, a piece of equipment that is certified annually vs a rope and clevis that is often tied to a compromised tree. if crane work don't roll like that for you than no you didn't need a crane there.
 
I'd have to see a season play out to appreciate it but it doesn't make sense from my perspective. Creaming an affluent market might be the difference. My market will do it themselves if the price IS what it's supposed to be.
 
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I plan using my kboom frequently on nearly every tree that would otherwise have to be rigged, even when it's not needed per say. Why? Efficiency. I've done that when I've rented too. If you can't keep up with the work load it's one of the most effective ways to stay on track and increase your volume of work completed in a given week.


[/ QUOTE ]yea if I had a kboom I'd use it all the time too. At $1400 per day with travel time and set up does a crane rental really increase your bottom line? Maybe if you were crushing big removals non stop all within a half hour or so. Right now we only use cranes when we need them. I had a three month back log this year, you want to move up you paid more. Seems like we spend more time gearing up, traveling and hauling chips and logs sometimes then working in the sky.
 
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You are right, I should have asked," any one else come across other tree guys who gouge elderly fixed income widows in a trailer with the excuse that they need a crane because their want to pee their pants when they look at the tree?"I did tell the old lady the tree was going to be easy. I don't talk bad to customers about other tree guys. A crane might be faster if you knew what you were doing with a crane...on this job, not sure about that. A crane guy has told me about this guy, in fact this crane guy told me he will not work with him anymore... Maybe this guy actually has another crane guy that cost more, who cares? This widow gouger guy would have taken all day from what I can guess, if he was sober and showed up on time for what I've heard. We had all our equipment backed right up to this tree how could a crane be any faster then the 20% I had to climb. There was no room to take bigger pieces then what I rigged and the ground crew still had to work to deal with the sizes. Gravity gets the rigged pieces to the earth quicker then a crane can. Butts were lowered onto the deck of the idling intimidator. Mini skid was idling waiting to move the chunks aside for the log truck.

Could I really charge $2500 let alone $5000 for 2 hours to a 94 year old, widow, on a fixed income in a trailer?

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If you had all your equip backed up to the tree I would have done it with a crane chip truck and 2 guys. Less chainsaw cus. No skids terr. Less area and bigger pieces. If you haven't worked with cranes it's possible you don't understand where the landing zones might be. Mine often starts in the bed of many truck. If a bucket can go up my crane can too
 
please keep in mind there are two schools of thought in removals. guys that do it with ropes the hard way and are going to fight the use of cranes to the death and guys that know how to do it with ropes but also realize that in some instances, cranes can speed up the operation and make things easier for all involved.
 
The most important and clear cut reason I use cranes is to battle stairs, and other treacherous terrain. A few years ago we pulled an uprooted hickory out of the lake with a 70 ton truck crane. Somehow I couldn't see guys carrying brush, logs, and the stump up 80 stairs. Aside from that, if the client demands absolutely no damamge, when there is no LZ. We have 3 oak trees to take down next week on a property that are sandwiched between the septic fields, and a grove of hemlocks that the client was very clear he did not want to see damaged in any way. The final criteria I have for crane use is efficiency. This past spring we took out 15? trees in one day from a property using a 65 ton AT. It made me faster than the other bidders, and because I was faster I was able to get the job done at a lower rate.

On the other hand though, I have lost several bids because I wanted to use the crane, and my competition did the job by the seat of their pants. Although the loss of jobs usually coincides with bidding a job using a 120 ton AT. I'm not about to make guys hump 3'+ diameter wood out of pits, or rig those pieces myself knowing full well how much easier and safer it would go with the crane.
 
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You are right, I should have asked," any one else come across other tree guys who gouge elderly fixed income widows in a trailer with the excuse that they need a crane because their want to pee their pants when they look at the tree?"I did tell the old lady the tree was going to be easy. I don't talk bad to customers about other tree guys. A crane might be faster if you knew what you were doing with a crane...on this job, not sure about that. A crane guy has told me about this guy, in fact this crane guy told me he will not work with him anymore... Maybe this guy actually has another crane guy that cost more, who cares? This widow gouger guy would have taken all day from what I can guess, if he was sober and showed up on time for what I've heard. We had all our equipment backed right up to this tree how could a crane be any faster then the 20% I had to climb. There was no room to take bigger pieces then what I rigged and the ground crew still had to work to deal with the sizes. Gravity gets the rigged pieces to the earth quicker then a crane can. Butts were lowered onto the deck of the idling intimidator. Mini skid was idling waiting to move the chunks aside for the log truck.

Could I really charge $2500 let alone $5000 for 2 hours to a 94 year old, widow, on a fixed income in a trailer?

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If you had all your equip backed up to the tree I would have done it with a crane chip truck and 2 guys. Less chainsaw cus. No skids terr. Less area and bigger pieces. If you haven't worked with cranes it's possible you don't understand where the landing zones might be. Mine often starts in the bed of many truck. If a bucket can go up my crane can too

[/ QUOTE ]No doubt..,if I had a crane I would have used it to, and I do not think this guy who bid against with the crane is anywhere near as efficient as you are. I have used a stick boom a few times and I am not efficient enough to have been faster on this particular job with a crane. I lowered pieces the size I would have picked. I'm sure you would have picked bigger pieces and no doubt been done and gone way quicker, cleaner and all that...which is why I want a kboom in the future. I have a lot to learn and I love it. My point is this guy was in fact using a crane to justify charging a lot more. I'm sure you are not in his boat.
 
One thing I think that is being missed here is pure laziness.. I have been climbing 26 years now and my niche in the market is doing big removals cheap. For years I had very little equipment and used to muscle everything. Now I have a sore worn out body. I use a crane often for 2 reasons, 1 I have a good friend who gives me great rates on a 17 ton and 2 it is so easy. Ride the ball, don't climb, less cuts, NO lifting and I go home early.

Unfortunately my buddy is retiring soon:( Im looking for a cheap crane so I can keep being lazy and extend my career
 
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please keep in mind there are two schools of thought in removals. guys that do it with ropes the hard way and are going to fight the use of cranes to the death and guys that know how to do it with ropes but also realize that in some instances, cranes can speed up the operation and make things easier for all involved.

[/ QUOTE ]I want a crane and will get one. Right now I am on that path making it happen with ropes and a bucket.

How did most guys with cranes end up with one?
Simple as just borrow $250k and the skills will follow?
 
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At $1400 per day with travel time and set up does a crane rental really increase your bottom line?

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Yes, sometimes by not a huge margin due to the rental fee. This will depend on your work schedule for that day and how skilled the crane op and cutter are. When renting, as mentioned above, its easy to price yourself outside of the competition if you are figuring a crane on one particular job and they are not. The strategy of thinking what other jobs can be completed during that daily rental. Line them up blow them out! it is not the crane alone creating the profit. It is the combination of scheduling your route for the day when the crane is rented or completing a multi day quoted removal done in under a day. Your margins may be less than if you spent more time. However, time is money. Instead of 2 days allotted for those jobs you just finished with the crane. You now have a free day that you fill with work that wouldn't of been there(time) if you didn't bring that crane in. The more time you free up completing additional jobs the chances are the potential profit secured in a given week is greater. Careful planning is crucial and that may requiring brushing a few jobs out and just bringing the crane to a few sites just for the stem picks. Every scenario is different it is up to the business how they can utilize the crane to achieve more profit at the end of the week. And one day with the crane will reconfigure your entire week.
 
Preachin to the choir buddy. If I could go back to start over again the first thing I would do is establish credit and then buy all the equipment I could. I have never financed anything so it limits me to what I can afford to buy. Flip side is its nice when you get slow not to have any payments.
 
"I am not efficient enough to have been faster on this particular job with a crane. I lowered pieces the size I would have picked."

Even if your taking a small crane pick say 1000lbs? You aren't roping pieces out the size of crane picks... not even half the size of a normal crane pick... Its just dumb don't spew bs like this.

You are now making less sense then when you started the thread.
 
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"I am not efficient enough to have been faster on this particular job with a crane. I lowered pieces the size I would have picked."

Even if your taking a small crane pick say 1000lbs? You aren't roping pieces out the size of crane picks... not even half the size of a normal crane pick... Its just dumb don't spew bs like this.

You are now making less sense then when you started the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]whats wrong with you dude! Is it not clear that I'm no where near the caliber arbordong as you. I'm here to spew, relate and learn something. Should I draw you a picture... The first part you quoted me explains it. I would not have known what to do with a crane that would have been faster... I can estimate trunk/ log wood all day with the charts. We have used the crane for white pines. Lots of trunk wood. The finer points of crane rigging 1000 lbs+ Crown branches with multiple lines is not in my repertoire...yet. Near the top we were roping out 30-40' branches at 12" at butt...small cotton woods.
 
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