Combining ropes in SRT

D

DumpyMcDoodleface

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I've seen a few posts searching the forums that touch on this, but I wanted to see if I could get the brain trust to gather thoughts on the topic.

Obviously with DRT/MRS, it's necessary to have a single piece of rope to run through the system, but is it necessary on SRT/SRS?

I'm looking into trying out SRT now, and I'm starting to gather up the pieces, but I realize my rope (vortex) is a bit think for mechanical devices. As a rec climber and someone who has spent way too much hobby budget right now, dropping another $200 on a rope is a big commitment, especially considering how much the combinations of components personal preference is a factor.

I can purchase smaller lengths at a much cheaper price (in the 50' range) per foot, and that would allow me to try 2 or 3 different ropes for less than a single 150' section of one. It seems like it would be possible to combine lengths of rope with the only caveat being I'd be limited to the height I could ascend without making a new TIP. Considering advancing your TIP is a normal part of climbing in many cases, and that I'm not climbing any monster trees around here, it seems like it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I also envision setting the vortex like a normal DRT climb, connecting the two lines with a carabiner and hauling my SRT line up. Once I approach the TIP, I can have the basal anchor disconnected and either operate DRT from there or advance my tie in with the advantage of not having to haul up half the rope.

Ok experts, school me.
 
Not an expert just an avid multirope canopy explorer. Base anchor with main climb line and attached quick link alpine butterfly or other preferable comforting loop knot like circus bowline (personal favorite) hauled up on main line to primary suspension point. This allows at least a couple more lines attached on a delta link with either a splice on end of supplementary/additional climb lines or another suitable knot instead of splice. You may then advance up main line and reach this point then disconnect if needed the additional lines and pitch them at will to where you want or need to be. Strong suitable anchors that can independently hold your weight need apply. Although when loaded correctly in the tree some species can hold some mighty fine amounts of weight.. the thing about short lines and disconnect from main line is retrieval. It's easy to toss and choke quick link around limb, but need ability to remove changes with short lines , you need a retrieval side if you plan on moving away from anchor point and some use small accessory cords . Or keep connect to main line and toss fall of line second or third lines (however many you feel like spaghetti through the tree)over suitable union.. just pay attention to the orientation of your vectors if not careful it can get dicey loading two lines at once with shift in top knot near PSP I'll call it.... and after you've descended and try to pull basal anchor..if lines have alot of friction through redirects it can be a real p.i.a. to pull out... Yesterday I was in a large maple and decided 2 lines better than 1.. far spread between anchors , so two separate ropes and two separate basal anchors was my choice. A knot like a zeppelin bend for instance can make 2 50 foot line a longer line for base anchor with knot up near or at union of choice. Then once reached and looking to move or advance up can be made into canopy anchor with one line serving to climb on and other side for pull down retrieval with just quick link and inline knot added as well... simple shit really with a bit of practice. Think it through , take it low and slow , good luck dumpy have fun !
 
I use 3 lines on my usual climb. All of them have 2 spliced ends.

One rope is long. After making my throwline shot, I pull that one up and over, when the end is about to go up, I connect 2 shorter lines to that one with a delta. I pull the two ropes up with the long one until it is just short of the TIP. I then basal tie the long rope. I ascend one of the shorter ropes. The longer rope is long enough to lower me in the event that a ground rescue is possible and needed.

The other rope is there in case I later want to use it for a second system. Sometimes, depending on the situation, I convert the whole shebang over to a choking system, making the long rope my retrieval rope. Then the second line is either a second system for me, or a preinstalled rescue line in the even some poor soul has to come get my unconscious body down.

This system has a few advantages: 1) the long rope rarely needs to be replaced due to wear. The only friction it sees is the friction over the crotch I pull it through unweighted so it's got a long lifespan. 2) the shorter ropes that see the friction devices are cheaper to replace and if I don't like a new rope I bought, at least I didn't buy 250' of it. 3) the second system/rescue line gets installed at the same time my primary gets installed saving time and effort.

I hope all that made sense.
 
I quite like vortex for srt. You can get a way with almost nothing for a hitch. The nice grab makes it great for pulling yourself around the tree. Heavy if your going through redirects or movie g your rope around a lot. Prefer a shorter hank when on removals.
 
@Treetopflyer and @JTree, hauling multiples up makes sense, and just leave the anchor tied - thanks for the idea!

@treebing I'll definitely give the vortex a try, I'd just heard big stuff doesn't run well and I thought it seems like toothed ascenders would be hard on it with it being so soft.

@Tuebor I can't see giving up my vortex as I'm quite attached to it. And I don't really see learning SRT as not experimenting... I mean a lot of climbing is figuring out what combinations of stuff works best for you, right?

I guess I don't really see it as experimenting so much anyway, just whether or not the practice was acceptable. I couldn't think of any downsides to joining two ropes together so long as the joint itself didn't present any issues. I'd tried searching, but I couldn't find anything definitive or anyone specifically describing the practice - though I have come across people taking about buying whole new ropes when having theirs accidentally cut.

With that said I just picked up 65' of Tachyon, 57' of xstatic and 40' of KM III for just over $100 shipped. The 40' might be a little short, but should be fine for redirects or something else if it doesn't work out for ascent.

Gives me the opportunity to try out 3 different lines for less than one long line would have cost me.
 
JTree wrote "One rope is long. After making my throwline shot, I pull that one up and over, when the end is about to go up, I connect 2 shorter lines to that one with a delta. I pull the two ropes up with the long one until it is just short of the TIP. I then basal tie the long rope. I ascend one of the shorter ropes. The longer rope is long enough to lower me in the event that a ground rescue is possible and needed."

I saw a Mark Bridge video where he was explaining MRS re-directs using pulleys - in it he showed the down leg of an SRT line girthed to the top slot of a DMM rigging hub and two additional climb lines girthed to the hub on the other side. It dons on me that this might be an upgrade over a delta for those spurless climbs where you don't have a bomb proof - that is a double climber rated - TIP where one rope leg can be used as climb line and the other as rescue (I'd have to be really really sure of a branch before I thought it'd be good for two climbers). You get the same thing with the delta, as above, but using a hub would allow you to connect the hub to a biner and sling setup maybe around a conifer stem (a safety upgrade on the trees I work in, over being tied into just a branch) or even to run an equalized set of slings to another branch on a deciduous tree.

There is another point about lowerable systems that I think often gets overlooked and that's how much a weighted moving rope is likely cut into the branch (TIP) effectively de-rating it with every foot of lowering (one climber not to mention the weight of two climbers). I think back to how much sawing I've seen in branches/ crotches with even a few pieces rigged on 16 strand. On dry wood it can be quite an eye opener some times.

Hope my coffee induced thoughts this morning aren't too hard to follow.

Corollary: The rope splices for the hub could be 5" or 6" eyes - for me these are easier to do than tight eyes sometimes, depending on the rope . . . hmmm . . .
 
I think vortex is good for ascenderless srt. It grips well so its good for good old school rope climbing. Footlocking. It's like a nice vine
 
treebing said:
I think vortex is good for ascenderless srt. It grips well so its good for good old school rope climbing. Footlocking. It's like a nice vine
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Do you just set up with a hitch and tender and footlock on up? That's basically what I do on MRS but it wears me out as I'm not in the best shape of my life... I guess I'd get there twice as fast, but I'd be lifting twice the weight so I'm not sure what's better.
 
treebing said:
When I foot lock SRT. its usually a sit stand. I rest after every lock. Tend my hitch so there is no sit back. All legs. Sometimes if its a decent spurt ill tend and use my arms and not rest. But sit/stand gets it done. 2 or three locks covers quite a bit of distance.
Click to expand...
Will definitely give that a try. My setup has so much sitback, and I can't believe it, but I have yet to do any real climbing on my new treemotion... So the sit part previously has been miserable. I try to get on a limb asap when hanging in a rock harness!
 
ghostice said:
I saw a Mark Bridge video where he was explaining MRS re-directs using pulleys - in it he showed the down leg of an SRT line girthed to the top slot of a DMM rigging hub and two additional climb lines girthed to the hub on the other side. It dons on me that this might be an upgrade over a delta for those spurless climbs where you don't have a bomb proof - that is a double climber rated - TIP where one rope leg can be used as climb line and the other as rescue (I'd have to be really really sure of a branch before I thought it'd be good for two climbers). You get the same thing with the delta, as above, but using a hub would allow you to connect the hub to a biner and sling setup maybe around a conifer stem (a safety upgrade on the trees I work in, over being tied into just a branch) or even to run an equalized set of slings to another branch
Click to expand...

I definitely think a hub or plate would be an upgrade to a delta, but if you don't have one I still really appreciate the redundancy of a back up or equalized multi point, on a less then bomber anchor or high re-directional. Sling and biner to a delta or ring and I am feeling better...Thanks for sharing
 
Vortex is a nice rope and is perfectly fine for SRT.
I've used it with the HH2 and RopeRunner and I'm sure it works fine with other devices as well.
Now if you climb on an Akimbo or BDB or any other device that limits the rope size being used then that's a different story.
It all depends on what device you plan to climb on.
 
@DumpyMcDoodleface

I've been on a combined two rope system for a while now. One 100' length of KM III for the Akimbo and an 80' of Imori set up with a HH2. Combined if required for a base anchor. Otherwise the KM III is my main and the Imori is my retrieval. With the HH2 always on the Imori I have the option of splitting the two lines when I need a second tie in point. Richard Mumford made a video on this technique. You just need to leave the tail from your main line (retrieval end) low enough in the tree that you can access the second line if required.

I would highly recommend going with longer lengths than 50'. We have fairly small trees in this area and yet this setup feels like it's the bare minimum on length sometimes. For trees greater than 80' I usually ditch the Imori and use a 120' for the main and KM III for the retrieval. I'll try to post some pictures.
 
therianclimber said:
@DumpyMcDoodleface

I've been on a combined two rope system for a while now. One 100' length of KM III for the Akimbo and an 80' of Imori set up with a HH2. Combined if required for a base anchor. Otherwise the KM III is my main and the Imori is my retrieval. With the HH2 always on the Imori I have the option of splitting the two lines when I need a second tie in point. Richard Mumford made a video on this technique. You just need to leave the tail from your main line (retrieval end) low enough in the tree that you can access the second line if required.

I would highly recommend going with longer lengths than 50'. We have fairly small trees in this area and yet this setup feels like it's the bare minimum on length sometimes. For trees greater than 80' I usually ditch the Imori and use a 120' for the main and KM III for the retrieval. I'll try to post some pictures.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice I'll have to check out Richard Mumford's video. I knew 50'ish would be on the short side, but here's my thinking: at this point my goals are to get into SRT, primarily as a means to get into the canopy more efficiently. Right now, the trees I climb are on my property pretty much and the branches don't really start for a good 25 - 30 ft up. From there, getting around the tree is a little better, but that first straight climb kicks my butt.

Once I'm there, I'm happy to switch back to DRT or advance my line. For me around 50 ft. Seemed to be the best balance of price and length. Given the equipment and rope have to play well, I didn't want to invest a ton in a rope that I might hate, and the short lengths let me try some different things.
 
I do the opposite of jtree. Set throwline, pull unspliced end up from the opposite side I'm going to climb. When that runs out, I attach short rope and base tie.

I have splices in, but prefer zeppelin bend with a carabiner spiking the eyes together.
 
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