Circle of Death

lonniels · Jun 21, 2012

Found some info about this on arbtalk and also Treetools blog. It is new to me, but I have a lot to learn. Basically it is when a climber gets trapped and smashed by the lanyard being connected to the side d's on the saddle, when the spar fails or splits. I am attaching a pic of one solution I am thinking of. Easy to set up and adjust. Would this work and be safer?

lonniels · Jun 21, 2012

alpine butterfly on spliced eye side and thimble on the hitch side

AxeTree · Jun 21, 2012

looks like that could be a life saver id just be sure to trash the system if you ever have one split and really put some pressure on it, i have had one start to split luckly i has a piece of 1/4 chain around the spar i figured it might split due to the lean of the spar and the size and being red oak seems like it splits fairly easily

chris_girard · Jun 21, 2012

I have been using the system shown on Treetools for many years now, since first hearing about it from Gerry Beranek and it is a good technique.

What is more important though is not having to have to rely on this technique in the first place. Know that when you are topping out a heavy head leaner to bore cut your hinge instead of using a straight backcut. This will definitely help in preventing the spar from splitting.

Also as my friend Ed Hobbs told me awhile back, “When in doubt, climb higher.” What he meant by this was to take a smaller top by climbing higher up. Lots of times, new climbers tend to take too big a top when there usually isn’t any need for it.

PrimeApe · Jun 21, 2012

A simpler way is to move the lanyard connections to the center. In your case the bridge on your saddle or the red rigging plate. This would allow you more adjustment in your system.

islandarb · Jun 21, 2012

I agree with Chris on the climb higher thing, lazy climbers and novices who haven't gotten over the height issue will tend to go too big which is unwise. I remember being at that point, wondering if I should go higher or just take it. Luckily down here trees don't split as a rule. But your concept looks workable, just make sure the prussic is holding nicely, it looks fine to me. On a different note Lionnels have a look at my sequoia ( have a TM but prefer my sequoia ) and tell me if you like the bridge it is much smoother than the webbing but it's just my opinion. Just throwing it in the mix, that's globe 3000 ( TM bridge ) beautiful rope for a bridge.

islandarb · Jun 21, 2012

[ QUOTE ]
A simpler way is to move the lanyard connections to the center. In your case the bridge on your saddle or the red rigging plate. This would allow you more adjustment in your system.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you are saying, seems like I seen that somewhere before basically having your lanyard setup on the bridge ring. Am I correct. And are we still using a choked off climbline setup in addition to this lanyard. Seems busy in that one spot though. Am I missing something? Don't use the system. But always out for a little learning moment.

surfarmer1 · Jun 21, 2012

That works well on the spar splitting but look in the achives for suggestions about attachment to the spar shpuld the spar fail...

chris_girard · Jun 21, 2012

If the spar should fail, you had better have a breakaway lanyard and be tied in to an adjacent tree, or you are going to crater into the ground.

islandarb · Jun 21, 2012

[ QUOTE ]
If the spar should fail, you had better have a breakaway lanyard and be tied in to an adjacent tree, or you are going to crater into the ground.

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YIKES!!! Who has a breakaway lanyard I guess these are things when dealing with hazardous trees that can fail to think about. This thread should prove to be very interesting. Though I remember this stuff vaguely being run through in the archives somewhere. My simple solution would be the keychain ring on the D's which would simply breakaway should the tree fail, a tie in to another tree would be the only solution in this scenario. Have used this before but in these instances there was no failure thankfully.

lonniels · Jun 21, 2012

Great discussion, I agree climb high and take smaller pieces. I missed this discussion before and thought I would bring it up again. Good cutting technique is a life saver.

Lanyarding into the center is a great idea, it would take some getting used to. I think using the side d's gives me more stability.

Swing that is a good idea, I will give it a try. The webbing is ok but that looks like it would give easier lateral movement.

Thanks for the replies, this is a great place to learn.

Lonnie

islandarb · Jun 21, 2012

Lonnie they did mention that with the lanyard to the center ring on the bridge would take getting used to, stability wise but not like ya gotta do it often. Never tried it though. Will give it a spin the next time I am blocking down to see how it feels. And yes you can get better lateral movement with the rope bridge setup on the sequoia, just use the RIGHT rope the globe 3000 is excellent and the double fishermans work well. Good show dude. We can learn here for sure that is my main reason for buzzing.

Tom Dunlap · Jun 21, 2012

Using a center connection for a lanyard is soooo close to SRT! Actually, it is SRT. If this is the case...why the fuss about SRT work positioning?

PrimeApe · Jun 21, 2012

Yes, you got it. As far as stability goes, you can choke the lanyard also. Create your direction of pull opposite of your choked climbing line. By pushing the "bight" around the tree on each, you can work against the bight and increase your stability. As far as the break away idea, and tying into another tree goes, there are not always other trees and if you have to consider the tree failing while being attached to it then i feel you should consider other options rather than climbing it.

PrimeApe · Jun 21, 2012

Dang it Tom, it's always about SRT with you

I'm not sure what the fuss is about for sure...for sure. Let's just get it done safely. And by the way, if there is one rope for the lanyard and one for the climbing system, and they are both choked, is it still SRT

Tom Dunlap · Jun 21, 2012

Hahahah...I do like to ride my horse don't you know

chris_girard · Jun 21, 2012

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As far as the break away idea, and tying into another tree goes, there are not always other trees and if you have to consider the tree failing while being attached to it then i feel you should consider other options rather than climbing it.

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I would certainly agree with this. If you're really in doubt of the tree failing, don't climb it. Get a crane or bucket truck. If you can't get either to the site, walk away from the job.

islandarb · Jun 21, 2012

Walking away is good for health reasons when it JUST DOES'NT FEEL RIGHT.

flyingsquirrel25 · Jun 21, 2012

Has anyone had a spar split to the point of slamming them into the trunk or the choke system working and lived to tell about it? I would like to hear from them what they did or didnt do and what followed. It seams to me if the spar splits and you are choked off (with your lanyard), it will force the ropes down the spar anyhow. Or tighten the hitch so it doesnt move, and break something anyhow. So anyway I look at it Im falling in the end. I have never experienced it so I dont know what will happen, im just guessing with what little I know about physics and trees.

I agree prevention is the best medicine, when in dought piece it out.

lonniels · Jun 21, 2012

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Walking away is good for health reasons when it JUST DOES'NT FEEL RIGHT.

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This is exactly what I need to work on, I didnt walk away when I should have on a spruce takedown and now I have a partially torn muscle in my shoulder. There is always another day.