Buck slap of fig 8?

[DurtymaxLineman]

So this is my first post, but have been lurking for almost two years. TONS if knowledge has been gained from all of you guys. So my question is can I use a fig 8 the way the new buck slap is designed to be used as a canopy anchor/basal anchor? It looks like it would do the same thing and looks very simple. Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Dan Cobb]

I had to look online at a BuckSLAP, hadn't heard of it. I'm no expert and maybe I'm missing something, but it looks a little like a solution in search of a problem. None of my ropes have eye splices, so my experience may be a little different. For a retrievable cinching canopy anchor installed from the ground, I just use a screw link in a butterfly. The size of the butterfly loop can be adjusted to match the branch diameter. When retrieving, it seems the BuckSLAP is just floating on the climb rope and could conceivably get hung and require some manipulation to ensure it doesn't stay in the tree. A Figure 8 does seem like a viable alternative. Personally, I doubt you can put enough bending stress on a Figure 8 to worry about.
Compared to what I typically rig, I don't agree with the statement "It engineers out hazard exposure by reducing components and complexity to a climber’s system" on the Buckingham site. I use one sturdy, cheap screw link as opposed to a carabiner (that must be properly oriented) plus two rings with a sewn connecting strap. Please enlighten me if I'm missing the wonders of the BuckSLAP.

 

[RyTheTreeGuy]

So this is my first post, but have been lurking for almost two years. TONS if knowledge has been gained from all of you guys. So my question is can I use a fig 8 the way the new buck slap is designed to be used as a canopy anchor/basal anchor? It looks like it would do the same thing and looks very simple. Thanks in advance for any input.

I too had to look up what a "buck strap" was...basically just a blocking version of a canopy anchor. I see no reason why a figure 8 could not work, except possibly that it is a single piece of hardware and the rigidity may cause a problem with cinching on a smaller diameter limb. Definitely worth testing out though...as always start low and slow and be thorough in your experimentation. I use that same style of canopy anchor often and I can tell you that it retrieves wonderfully and I can take as many redirects as a base tie and still retrieve it. The good folks of this site turned me on to a mid line attachable version and I havn't looked back since. I will warn you there have been some who have expressed safety concerns with knot/carabiner blocking style systems so do your research and decide whether its for you or not...welcome to the buzz.

 

[RyTheTreeGuy]

I had to look online at a BuckSLAP, hadn't heard of it. I'm no expert and maybe I'm missing something, but it looks a little like a solution in search of a problem. None of my ropes have eye splices, so my experience may be a little different. For a retrievable cinching canopy anchor installed from the ground, I just use a screw link in a butterfly. The size of the butterfly loop can be adjusted to match the branch diameter. When retrieving, it seems the BuckSLAP is just floating on the climb rope and could conceivably get hung and require some manipulation to ensure it doesn't stay in the tree. A Figure 8 does seem like a viable alternative. Personally, I doubt you can put enough bending stress on a Figure 8 to worry about.
Compared to what I typically rig, I don't agree with the statement "It engineers out hazard exposure by reducing components and complexity to a climber’s system" on the Buckingham site. I use one sturdy, cheap screw link as opposed to a carabiner (that must be properly oriented) plus two rings with a sewn connecting strap. Please enlighten me if I'm missing the wonders of the BuckSLAP.
View attachment 74298

The real difference between this style and a specific canopy anchor is friction...I use this style often if I know I will be coming down without any re-directs or for spar work...the friction with this anchor system primarily comes from the bark and can be very difficult or impossible to retrieve with re-directs. The friction on the other system is on the ring making it very easy to pull down, even with multiple re-directs

 

[Tuebor]

Think of the BuckSLAP, a/k/a Flint Locker, as a flexible figure 8. That way it can conform to the limb size and shape without stressing the metal.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Welcome to the public side of Treebuzz...nice to have you uncloaked.

The concern is about using a piece of hardware that will 'bridge' and be bent around the tree.

I would prefer not to see F8's used. They are probably plenty strong but they aren't engineered to have side bending loads on them.

My go-to choice for this application has been a Delta screwlink.

Singlejack/JB Holdway came up with this, to make it retrievable attach throwline or some haul back cord to the Delta.

What are the concerns with using a knot/biner choke besides the bridging?

 

[dmonn]

Welcome to the public side of Treebuzz...nice to have you uncloaked.

The concern is about using a piece of hardware that will 'bridge' and be bent around the tree.

I would prefer not to see F8's used. They are probably plenty strong but they aren't engineered to have side bending loads on them.

My go-to choice for this application has been a Delta screwlink.

Singlejack/JB Holdway came up with this, to make it retrievable attach throwline or some haul back cord to the Delta.

What are the concerns with using a knot/biner choke besides the bridging?

What knot are you using that gives you the two loops? It looks very useful.

 

[Tuebor]

What knot are you using that gives you the two loops? It looks very useful.

Probably a Figure 8 on a bight

 

[DurtymaxLineman]

Thanks for all of the insight guys. I have been tieing the butterfly and using a quickie. Just looking for an easier way to progress my tip to where I want it. I usually try and have a canopy anchor and then just run the standing end with a long enough tail to retrieve it from the ground. I've tried cambium savers with a biner on one side and ring on the other so I can progress it without pulling all of my line through and around the next crotch. The whole srt thing is a blast. I'm a lineman by trade so I have always climbed with hooks and my heavy leather lineman belt. This tree work has been a fun adventure. It has taught me a lot and I've had an excuse to buy more tools. Probably never would have gotten so into it if it wasn't for all of the knowledge form everyone here.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Thanks for all of the insight guys. I have been tieing the butterfly and using a quickie. Just looking for an easier way to progress my tip to where I want it. I usually try and have a canopy anchor and then just run the standing end with a long enough tail to retrieve it from the ground. I've tried cambium savers with a biner on one side and ring on the other so I can progress it without pulling all of my line through and around the next crotch. The whole srt thing is a blast. I'm a lineman by trade so I have always climbed with hooks and my heavy leather lineman belt. This tree work has been a fun adventure. It has taught me a lot and I've had an excuse to buy more tools. Probably never would have gotten so into it if it wasn't for all of the knowledge form everyone here.

Just a couple no nonsense options depending on the situation- If you know you’ll be advancing your tip, I would send up one end of your rope with a running bowline. Then you can advance up the tree more easily.

Depending on the work, you may find it easier to DRT down, avoiding any need for a retrievable canopy tie.

If you need to set up a retrievable canopy tie after advancing a TIP, I’ll admit the first option is relatively annoying. Curious to hear if others have a good idea for that...

 

[Jehinten]

Just looking for an easier way to progress my tip to where I want it

If you know you’ll be advancing your tip, I would send up one end of your rope with a running bowline. Then you can advance up the tree more easily.

This is a good quick option, then once you reach your final tie in point you can tie on a retrieval rope. This prevents the need to reset your rope midline with an alpine butterfly.

I like to use two shorter ropes for this, since you don't need one rope that is twice as long as your tie in point.