Blake's Hitch slipping

M

Mintopop

Location
Alberta
Hello again everyone. I posted here over a year ago asking for some guidance learning how to climb, and then I had a series of unfortunate injuries (covid, car accident) that kept me from actually being able to practice until today. I got all my new gear out, carefully read all my books and tried to set up a simple traditional Blake's hitch system. However, I could not for the life of me get my Blake's hitch to grab the rope and hold when I put my weight back in my saddle - if I sat back long enough eventually my butt would end up on the ground. My knot book suggested adding extra turns to the hitch if it was having trouble grabbing, but even that didn't seem to help.

I'm coming here hoping some of you experts can let me know if a) I've completely tied this knot wrong or b) if the brand new rope doesn't have enough friction and what I should do to help mitigate this in the meantime. I can see there's gaps between the standing line and the loops but I couldn't get this rope to cinch any tighter no matter how much I tried to set and dress the knot, the turns would just start sliding back out
 

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oh no! Can I substitute in a different friction knot or do I have to get an entirely new rope?

Can't believe you folks can tell the exact brand of rope I have from one picture...
 
Okay, I gotta try some of those option outs next time I go out. I definitely have an eye-to-eye and possibly a split-tail, but I was trying to go with the simplest systems possible introducing more pieces in. Looks like I unintentionally started myself out on hard mode
 
You can definitely use that rope with a split tail or eye and eye for the hitch.

Why’d you add more wraps to the top though? It might work better if you add a wrap to the bottom, but you’ll definitely be better off with a more pliable rope.

What diameter is the rope? I might have something you can have.
 
I have been able to get a KMIII Blake's (closed system) to grab, but it was a nice broken-in line. Brand new would be very difficult. Not recommended to climb in DdRT with static rope anyway. My recommendation for beginners is always Blue Moon, which would have no problem with a Blake's, would quickly migrate to eye and eye prusik cords, and works great in SRT as well when you're ready to move in that direction...
 

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Brand new ropes don't behave like well broken in lines. A waxy coating is applied at the factory to facilitate the manufacturing process and the ropes come out of the factory as smooth as glass. New ropes don't have the extra surface area and friction that the fuzzy surface of a broken in rope would have. You might want to find a way to gently scuff and wear the rope a bit. Pull it under tension around something round and smooth, like a trailer hitch ball, a few times.. Just try doing that to the last 20 feet or so of the line, and then try your hitch again to see if its holding power has improved.
 
Muggs said:
I have been able to get a KMIII Blake's (closed system) to grab, but it was a nice broken-in line. Brand new would be very difficult. Not recommended to climb in DdRT with static rope anyway. My recommendation for beginners is always Blue Moon, which would have no problem with a Blake's, would quickly migrate to eye and eye prusik cords, and works great in SRT as well when you're ready to move in that direction...
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Ha, you beat me to it!
 
Nothing to add that others haven't already said.. The rope is too hard, firm, and fine of a cover for a blakes to hold as a closed system when new or even easily when a used a bit.
A blakes is great to know, and you should have it down pat as you always have the tail of your line in a pinch.
I'd just recommend getting a eye to eye, hitch tending pulley for now. But also do get a split tail too, something about the same diameter of the rope. I've seen that there is now an 11mm 16 strand, perhaps wesspur could make you one? But really all you need is 4' or so, an just tie a knot as termination.
Sometimes it helps to fuzz up a split tail a little, just some back and forth rubbing on a rough barked tree, or even curb in a pinch.
 
Jonny said:
You can definitely use that rope with a split tail or eye and eye for the hitch.

Why’d you add more wraps to the top though? It might work better if you add a wrap to the bottom, but you’ll definitely be better off with a more pliable rope.

What diameter is the rope? I might have something you can have.
Click to expand...

One of the books I had mentioned adding more wraps but only putting the tail through the bottom 2-3 wraps. I guess my logic from there assumed that running the tail through too many more wraps would reduce its ability to grab.

The rope is 11mm diameter.
Muggs said:
I have been able to get a KMIII Blake's (closed system) to grab, but it was a nice broken-in line. Brand new would be very difficult. Not recommended to climb in DdRT with static rope anyway. My recommendation for beginners is always Blue Moon, which would have no problem with a Blake's, would quickly migrate to eye and eye prusik cords, and works great in SRT as well when you're ready to move in that direction...
Click to expand...
For my own clarity, Blue Moon is the XTC 24 strand right?

Feeling a little goofy I assumed any climbing rope would be able to work with the traditional system. I grabbed the KM III Max on clearance sale because the only other rope I had was a dirty, puffy old one "gifted" to me by another climber and realistically is only good for a light-weight tag line. One of the gear catalogues I picked up says kernmantle is "good for a wide range of duties", I guess I didn't realize that doesn't necessarily mean literally everything.

Thanks for all the tips on adding a bit of fuzz and friction! I'm over here trying to keep my rope in perfect factory condition which sounds like is part of the problem lmao
 
I would never like to see a friction hitch tied using KM3 or any other static line that I’ve seen

Since yoube committed to KM3 find a more supple rope for a split tail. There are so many choices that are subtlety different. Choose hitch cord that is a little bit smaller in diameter than your rope

Low and slow! Spend time on the ground practicing limb walks using shadows. Before you go off the ground do many single bite ascensions so that by straightening your legs you can stand up
 
Mintopop said:
For my own clarity, Blue Moon is the XTC 24 strand right?
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Blue Moon. Is or was a yale 11.7mm double braid. Same as poison IVY, focus, aztec and many other colors with minor differences. One major difference though is some varieties have a nylon core to make it EN compliant.
Somewhat recently manufacturing has partly(?) switched to Samson rope, but that might have been just the trademarked name of poison IVY which if I recall correctly was owned by Sherrill! Confused? good that means you get the jist of it.
Regardless, we all just called the varieties yale 11.7. A great work horse rope that can handle everything you can throw at it. It's a jack of all, master of none kinda line. AKA a solid working rope. There are other lines that are great but with more nuanced specifics, such as KMIII..
 
Mintopop said:
Thanks for all the tips on adding a bit of fuzz and friction! I'm over here trying to keep my rope in perfect factory condition which sounds like is part of the problem lmao
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I wouldn’t let that be the one thing you take away from this discussion… it’s just the wrong rope for your hitch.

Get a bit of rope for a split tail. You don’t even need a sewn eye. 4’ should be plenty. Something 10mm would work decent with the kmiii. Something like this. $10 gets you what you need.. may need a second carabiner if you just have 1. https://arbsession.com/ocean-10mm-200m-1.html
 
What Stumps said.. Keep practicing a closed blakes as you need to have that down pat, but just get a hitch cord and tie some scaffold knots.. a extra carabiner and tending pulley too.. None of that is wasted gear, even if you outgrow the system you WILL find uses for it!
 
Thanks again everyone for all your suggestions. I'm on a bit of a budget but seeing Stumpsprouts' suggestion for the split tail rope makes me feel a bit better that I won't have to go out and put another few hundred on an entirely new system :) I would like to pick up the Yale rope evo suggested as well, but it may not be in the budget this month.

I definitely want to go low and slow which is why I'm doing so much by myself...my limited experiences with other climbers have had them belaying me into places I didn't feel ready to go in with too much gear that I didn't understand. Being in a tree was fun but I was also terrified the entire time because I didn't even really know what was holding me up or how anything worked.

If I'm understanding correctly, the reason I don't want to use friction hitches with a static rope is because they aren't pliable enough for a friction hitch to grab?
 
The correct friction hitches work on static line. Your KM3 on Km3 won't work. The KM3 doesn't like to be a moving rope system but it can be in a pinch. Stick with us and we will get you through.
 
Mintopop said:
If I'm understanding correctly, the reason I don't want to use friction hitches with a static rope is because they aren't pliable enough for a friction hitch to grab?
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You can use hitches with static rope, but static rope itself doesn't work well as a friction hitch, such as in a Blake's hitch like you were trying. It can work - especially once the rope is broken in, but it's not really pliable enough to grip well. Static ropes are designed to use primarily for ascent. They can be used for work positioning as well, especially with a mechanical friction device. Also, they don't perform as well in a moving rope system as a double braid rope would.
 
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