Bee line prussik cord
- Thread starter Climber020
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
Lets see your splices!
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's some splices i've done.
Starting left to right, First 16 strand I actually finished(Yale XTC). with help from Nick and some others over at the Treehouse.
Next in line is Beeline.
Then first attempt at velocity, not too bad, but it was used rope. I think it wasn't too bad for me because i had some basic techniques down with the XTC.
Then second attempt on the far right finished today, better than the first i think.
Steve
Lets see your splices!
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's some splices i've done.
Starting left to right, First 16 strand I actually finished(Yale XTC). with help from Nick and some others over at the Treehouse.
Next in line is Beeline.
Then first attempt at velocity, not too bad, but it was used rope. I think it wasn't too bad for me because i had some basic techniques down with the XTC.
Then second attempt on the far right finished today, better than the first i think.
Steve
Attachments
- Location
- Longmont, CO
I use 4 and 3 wraps. Works fine.
IS THE BEE LINE CORD AS GOOD AS THE TENEX FROM SHERRILL?thats the red and blue cord ?
Perfect size picture and definitely serviceable-looking splices. Congrats!
- Location
- NJ
The bee line cord is much better then the tenox in my opinion. I usually like the 8 mm prussiks better but I really like the bee line 10 mm.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Careful...that beeline you showed in your splice is the larger diameter. It is NOT a vectran core. It's polyester. I'm sure the core is just Yalex. (Not that that's a bad thing). The 3/8th's Beeline (like you have shown in the pic) has a breaking strength of 7500lbs. You've created a core dependent splice. If the core is only 1/16th diameter smaller than the overall diameter of the rope, then you're looking at a 5/16ths core. 5/16ths Yalex has a ABS of 4,000. Still VERY strong, especially for a hitch cord...but just keep that in mind.
Regarding the bury length of the 5/16th beeline....I said 6". Brion Toss recommends burying 48 rope diameters for single braid vectran. Yale recommends 4 fids+1 short fid. A fid is ABOUT 21 rope diameters. So following BT, a 1/4" core, you'd have to bury 12" of core to maintain 100% efficiency. Though this is possible in a 30" eye-eye hitch cord sling, it's not ideal for the application. Following the manufacturers recommendation, you'd be doing over 22" per tail.
So basically I looked at the original strength of the rope (8000lbs). Figured I had room to spare in the splice (seeing as how each splice on a hitch cord is holding around 25% of your body weight, if you're climbing DRT). This becomes what I call a convenience splice. There are STRONGER splices, but for me, the strongest splice, in this application, is LESS convenient. So I'm sacrificing strength of convenience. Given the parameters, it seems a safe bet, though only a break test can say for sure.
In other words, I made an educated guess. AKA...I pulled it outta my @$$.
FWIW, we could critique the splices better if there was a MUCH LARGER picture showing more details of the eyes, tapers, and whippings. But from what I see, they don't look bad at all.
The red/blue cord from sherrill is Ultratech (probably). Beeline is WAY better. Stop buying Ultratech for hitch cords, please. Save your money. Ultratech has a polyester cover (the red/blue part) that actually grabs your rope. Polyester will wear down quickly, compared to the EXPENSIVE technora CORE (that never touches your rope). The <font color="green"> <u>ONLY </u> </font> way Ultratech is MAYBE a good decision is 1 of 2 situations. 1- You like how it performs for you. If it grabs when you want it to, let's you descend at YOUR discretion, and is easy to advance, then I say it's worth a few extra bucks. However, chances are that an ALL polyester rope will perform as well for a mere fraction of the cost. That leaves #2. 2- You are in a tree, need to descend FAST...like, you see the boogie man in the tree and get super skirred /forum/images/graemlins/aaa.gif, start burning out of the tree, then try to slow your descent just before you hit the ground....in this case, the polyester cover (which burns at 300-500 degrees) will have melted away to nothing in the first 20' or so, and the technora core (which burns at 700-900 degrees) should still be in tact. Now here's the catch...and something I'm not sure many of the dedicated UT users have considered... IN THE CASE OF AN EMERGENCY, WILL THE NEWLY EXPOSED SLIPPERY TECHNORA CORE OF ULTRATECH (or other similarly designed high-modulus/polyester double braid ropes) BE ABLE TO PERFORM AS A FRICTION HITCH??? If you've never tested the CORE as a hitch cord, how do you know how many wraps you need for it to hold you? You know the rule- try new things (hitches, cords, moves, etc) Low and Slow.
It makes sense to put cords like technora, vectran, PBO/Zylon, Kevlar, etc on the COVER of a rope that is used as a hitch cord. I would happily pay extra for that.
Maybe a lot to chew on, and yes I'm biased...but I welcome any criticism about what I've said. I want y'all to be happy and safe up in the trees!!!
love
nick
Regarding the bury length of the 5/16th beeline....I said 6". Brion Toss recommends burying 48 rope diameters for single braid vectran. Yale recommends 4 fids+1 short fid. A fid is ABOUT 21 rope diameters. So following BT, a 1/4" core, you'd have to bury 12" of core to maintain 100% efficiency. Though this is possible in a 30" eye-eye hitch cord sling, it's not ideal for the application. Following the manufacturers recommendation, you'd be doing over 22" per tail.
So basically I looked at the original strength of the rope (8000lbs). Figured I had room to spare in the splice (seeing as how each splice on a hitch cord is holding around 25% of your body weight, if you're climbing DRT). This becomes what I call a convenience splice. There are STRONGER splices, but for me, the strongest splice, in this application, is LESS convenient. So I'm sacrificing strength of convenience. Given the parameters, it seems a safe bet, though only a break test can say for sure.
In other words, I made an educated guess. AKA...I pulled it outta my @$$.
FWIW, we could critique the splices better if there was a MUCH LARGER picture showing more details of the eyes, tapers, and whippings. But from what I see, they don't look bad at all.
The red/blue cord from sherrill is Ultratech (probably). Beeline is WAY better. Stop buying Ultratech for hitch cords, please. Save your money. Ultratech has a polyester cover (the red/blue part) that actually grabs your rope. Polyester will wear down quickly, compared to the EXPENSIVE technora CORE (that never touches your rope). The <font color="green"> <u>ONLY </u> </font> way Ultratech is MAYBE a good decision is 1 of 2 situations. 1- You like how it performs for you. If it grabs when you want it to, let's you descend at YOUR discretion, and is easy to advance, then I say it's worth a few extra bucks. However, chances are that an ALL polyester rope will perform as well for a mere fraction of the cost. That leaves #2. 2- You are in a tree, need to descend FAST...like, you see the boogie man in the tree and get super skirred /forum/images/graemlins/aaa.gif, start burning out of the tree, then try to slow your descent just before you hit the ground....in this case, the polyester cover (which burns at 300-500 degrees) will have melted away to nothing in the first 20' or so, and the technora core (which burns at 700-900 degrees) should still be in tact. Now here's the catch...and something I'm not sure many of the dedicated UT users have considered... IN THE CASE OF AN EMERGENCY, WILL THE NEWLY EXPOSED SLIPPERY TECHNORA CORE OF ULTRATECH (or other similarly designed high-modulus/polyester double braid ropes) BE ABLE TO PERFORM AS A FRICTION HITCH??? If you've never tested the CORE as a hitch cord, how do you know how many wraps you need for it to hold you? You know the rule- try new things (hitches, cords, moves, etc) Low and Slow.
It makes sense to put cords like technora, vectran, PBO/Zylon, Kevlar, etc on the COVER of a rope that is used as a hitch cord. I would happily pay extra for that.
Maybe a lot to chew on, and yes I'm biased...but I welcome any criticism about what I've said. I want y'all to be happy and safe up in the trees!!!
love
nick
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
And steve, yes...always put in as long and as smooth of a taper that you can get away with. It increases efficiency of the splice, AND reduces chafe.
love
nick
love
nick
- Location
- pittsburgh
about how long should bee-line last,with everyday use
I tie mine with the distel - 2 fisherman's loops/30 inches long
I tie mine with the distel - 2 fisherman's loops/30 inches long
Not necessary to send a great big huge image just to show some detail within it. Judicious use of cropping is much more responsible.
- Location
- sunny Madison, WI
I find an application of baby powder in the proper location also reduces chafe...
Ok that was a lot to chew on. But still a couple more questions. As far as beeline in the configuration i have pictured with the yalex in the core it should be treated as double braid and spliced so/could it be? I would much rather prefer to have the vertran core and kinda bummed when it came with out but i checked out the specs and still figured a core dependent would be ok. As far as ultra tech goes i would agree. I have some of the (all) tan cord from sherrill and you can't bust the stuff, it has the technora on the outside, but would be a pain to splice, i beleive, because the core is not braided.
attached is i hope a better picture of the velocity splices i did, number 2 is much better looking
attached is i hope a better picture of the velocity splices i did, number 2 is much better looking
Attachments
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Climbhigh- How long beeline lasts? No numbers can be used when answering that. It all depends on how you climb. Some people will still trash a beeline in a couple days, or a couple climbs. For some, it can last months. What IS certain is that it will outlast polyester ropes used in similar circumstances.
Glens- great point on the cropping. Zoom in for the detail, then crop out all the other stuff that we don't need to see.
Deodorant? Baby powder? You guys are crazy!
Huggybear- I will check my directions to see what the manufacturer recommends as the official splice for the big Beeline. I would climb on the one you made in a heart beat, assuming the splices to the core are good.
That tan cord you got from Sherrill shant be spliced.
In the picture from post #49399, there is a very clear abrupt ending to the end of the tail inside the rope. The taper is not smooth. Make the tail a few inches longer, then spread the tail out along those extra inches. Your splice will be stronger and will last longer.
love
nick
Glens- great point on the cropping. Zoom in for the detail, then crop out all the other stuff that we don't need to see.
Deodorant? Baby powder? You guys are crazy!
Huggybear- I will check my directions to see what the manufacturer recommends as the official splice for the big Beeline. I would climb on the one you made in a heart beat, assuming the splices to the core are good.
That tan cord you got from Sherrill shant be spliced.
In the picture from post #49399, there is a very clear abrupt ending to the end of the tail inside the rope. The taper is not smooth. Make the tail a few inches longer, then spread the tail out along those extra inches. Your splice will be stronger and will last longer.
love
nick
- Location
- Twin Cities
I climb on both the 8mm Beeline and the HRC on a regular basis. I love the consistent feeling, grip, and durablity of the HRC. Well worth the money. As far as the 8mm Beeline goes I like the softness and the overall feel on it. A couple of things i don't really like about it is its very easy to smoke thru it and i have found that it really likes to milk. If your looking for the best hitch cord for your money I would have to recommend the HRC.
I think someone needs a new camera, or atleast one with a flash. Pictures can only tell so much about a splice. A piked fiber that throws the rope's load-sharing abilities off might not show in a picture; as well as cover slack, wich is important in a 50/50 (cover and core) dependant rope, like the velocity. I think if you burry the right amount, there feels like there is even tension between the cover and core of the splice and all the fibers seem undisterbed and in order, the splice should be good. It definatley looks as if the eye in your splice to the right ,huggybear, is distorted, like you caught a wrong fiber by accident when you were making the splice, of maybe it's just the picture. 8 mm Bee line and pretty much all core depent 12 stand hollow braid splices are super easy as long as you have all the info right and know what you are working with. YOU SHOULD NEVER GUESS. thats why there is factual info out there. I think we all have to do enough guessing at work. I think if there are facts out there, then use them. Splice strong. =D an
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