Alternative to clove hitch for rigging short trunk sections

[knudeNoggin]

Yes it can, did with me twice on log sections....

Jerry shows this take on a clove in The Fundamentals
View attachment 88084

There's a lot to comment on in the statements brought out in this thread,
but let me take this handy image --I'm continually faulted for using verbal imagery--
to present a way to secure the clove hitch, with a bowlinesque "collar" ::
1) the knot shown above has its "main line" (my "S.Part") on the left-side end
of the clove h. (making the BWL's nipping turn around the Tail),
and the Tail of the hitch shown runs out under the crossing part on the right.
--words above just to set our terms & view--

2) now, one can gain security by taking the Tail (out of the BWL --just evaporate that eye knot)
and leading it leftwards BEHIND the S.Part, and around back BEFORE it to ...

3) ... tuck it out through that little triangle of space between clove ends
and the "crossing part" of the hitch, where this tucked Tail will be nipped by
the two ends (S.Part & Tail) and the crossing part.
QED

4) One can also secure the Clove h. simply by tucking the Tail --bringing it
back over the crossing part-- under its own turn, which structure is sometimes
presented as a "Killick/killeg/... HJ." (though IMO that hitch is properly a Cow
base w/dogged Tail).

A general fault of some of the knotting advice cited in references given here
is a lack of looking at the problem's Why and solving for that, instead just
using the age-old given structure and finding it lacking. E.g., OK the failing
of the Clove (esp. in modern ropes & strong loads --the hitch has been tying
up floats on com.fishing boats for a long time, in their ropes) is understood
but how about <gasp --it's not in The Knot books!> THREE half-hitches?!
--or, what is better/surer, making the 2nd (even, in some cases, the first HH)
with a U-fold'd tail then cast into a slip-knot --which bulks against the turn
of the HH, not requiring such strong close "nipping".
And that Clove can have a <gasp!!> 3rd turn, which will iron smooth the
first one, resisting the pulling-across-and-jamming behavior (though one might
deliberately set THAT in the 3rd turn, which won't receive much force, as a slack-security measure).
Now, going for 3 vice 2 does consume cordage & an extra around-the-pile tying,
so other measures (the collar or stopper) will be favored in some circumstances.
(I can envision one working with line that has a nicely set stopper knot in it
precisely to position as securing structure to some tied/re-tied/... hitch.)

A similar "collar"ing can improve the "Cow With a Better Half" --might wanna re-name
that "... with a half" 'cause IMO what I'll now propose is "better" than that.
Having tied the Cow H., bring the Tail back across the S.Part parallel to the
Cow's collar/crossing-part,
and now tuck it back through the S.Part's turn and back out between the
Cow's original two ends (so this initial bring-the-Tail-across-parallel turn
will pinch the tucked-out Tail against collar & S.Part.

Someone asked about the Ground-/picket-line H.. While it has more security
for rings & spar-sized tying, around larger-dia objects (we'll call "pile" H.s),
the knotting/entangled part of this knot can be pulled anough away from the
needed-for-nipping object to likely also spill. (Whereas my verbally sketched
Clove. H. extension above gets the nipping purely from rope-vs-rope.)
But you might try the variation where the hitch's Tail is taken across the
S.Part's turn and then tucked back beneath it (Ashley's #1674), and further
tuck over-&-back-under the other turn --which coming after the 1st tuck
pretty well ensures that it will be far enough away from the S.Part's lifting draw
to stay tucked & pinched!

So you are telling me that this supposedly great knot that pretty much everybody recommends for use in critical rigging scenarios, where knot failure could result in catastrophic property damage or grave injury to any member of the ground crew, requires not just one backup, but in fact, two? Really? I have to be honest here folks, if a knot requires two half hitches to secure it, then you are using the wrong knot!

This is a rather silly statement. The recommended (with 2HH) structure COULD
be given A name, and IT wouldn't thus be seen as something less + back-up,
but as the entire named entity (well, e.g., that "Killeg H." above!). (The Fig.8 eye
knot COULD've come to us named for the structure of a Fig.8 (in S.Part) with a U-fold
finish like that for the BWL; and then there could be both a Yosemite Fig.8 & YoBowl.
But in fact one has the briefer knot for "BWL" and the F8 version something lost
to poor knots recording and misc. use among actual tyers.)

There is also the general bias in thinking "this ABC knot ..." vs/ "this particular cordage
ABC-knotted". Stiff, firm, & smooth are cordage qualities that can make for challenging
knotting!

... and so on ...,

*kN*

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Any knot, to be tied properly, must be 1) tied, 2) dressed, 3) set, and 4) checked. Not not mention having enough tail rope to account for the knot seizing. My suspicions about instances of "failed" knots during rigging ops would probably refer back to that process, and would require interogating the process of knot construction.