Aerial rescue scenario

[treebing]

This is not going to contribute anything of substance to the thread except humor, but if I'm climbing at home or a family member's house, I leave my phone on the ground and tell them to call @treebing if I get stuck!

ill come as fast as i can!

 

[moss]

I am thinking about putting together a talk- Safety in Sales.

At a company I once worked for, the ops manager told the teams that no one in management or sales could see any pattern in all the recent damages that had happened. One look at the spreadsheet and I saw it easily. 6 out of 11 jobs were for the newest salesman who had become notorious for underbidding jobs. When those jobs came up, ops pressured the teams to try to hit production goals despite the jobs being underbid. I wonder how many of the other 5 incidents were on underbid jobs?

It’s an easy trap- I think I underbid it, can the production team make up for the mistake?

NO

The salesman risks a meeting with management if his numbers are low. Honestly, that’s what NEEDS to happen. The crews risking their lives and exorbitant damages to cover for the salesman’s mistake isn’t just ridiculous, it’s wrong.

Take away risk to life and health. If a field person takes the fall for a big mistake, they are probably more likely to get fired than the salesperson. They likely make less and can’t ride out unemployment as easily (overgeneralization, I know).

So the person with a more secure and safer position pressures the person more exposed to hazard of loss on all sides to take risks to cover for their mistake.

Ooh, I gotta simmer down. I’ve seen this scenario play out too many times. I have friends that are somehow still alive after terrible accidents because of this scenario. All of our safety talks are pointed at the crews doing the work. Yes, let’s equip them with knowledge, and hopefully they can set healthy boundaries. But the silence toward the sales teams is deafening.

Great post. This is a problem in many industries including tech. Sales makes promises, the development (production) team has to work triple-time to meet the sales/customer expectations.
-AJ

 

[TimBr]

@moss;
This is again a moral hazard problem. The person trying to make the sale is not the one or even among the group of people who actually have to do the work. All they do is profit from the sales. They pay no price if the product is way under bid. It makes me think that the foreman or climber should be the one responsible for doing the bids, as they know what the work requires, and will be the ones to pay the price for a bad bid. Over time I would think they'd get pretty good at making accurate bids. Tim

 

[Crimsonking]

@moss;
This is again a moral hazard problem. The person trying to make the sale is not the one or even among the group of people who actually have to do the work. All they do is profit from the sales. They pay no price if the product is way under bid. It makes me think that the foreman or climber should be the one responsible for doing the bids, as they know what the work requires, and will be the ones to pay the price for a bad bid. Over time I would think they'd get pretty good at making accurate bids. Tim

That option is tough to execute. Juggling a pipeline of sales with field operations usually causes one or the other to suffer strain. I’m not sure that would bring adequate change.

My personal thought is is engaging with salespeople on leadership. Help them see that they really are leading the teams. Decision making, boundaries, and communication skills are all extremely important for a salesperson to master. They need to see the teams safety and productivity are their responsibility, not to be demanded from the team, but to be cultivated within them. It boils down to the adage- take care of your team, and your team will take care of your customer.

The salesperson also needs to recognize that they are capable of transferring immense pressure to the field teams, and have strong influence over the teams’ decision making. That influence should be used to encourage critical thinking and respecting heathy boundaries. I have seen this scenario play out successfully.

Ultimately, salespeople are often too insulated /isolated from operations, or (for owner/operators) too involved without accountability.

I’m going to start my research in the next couple weeks. Anyone have any opinions, feedback, or resources on that specific topic, please message me.

 

[Mick Dempsey]

I have never heard of any firm ever using a dedicated salesman in France or the UK

 

[moss]

I have never heard of any firm ever using a dedicated salesman in France or the UK

Everything is better in Europe ;-)

It is in the tree biz owner's short-term best interest for sales to keep the production team on their heels day in day out. There's a reason why turnover is so high in U.S. tree work. This is a vast generality, there are many operators out there who have a strong sense of workplace ethics and sustainability for the folks doing the work. The general forces of market economics are against it, it takes a principled stand to do what's right in the long run.

Again, this problem is not unique to tree work. Lower labor/overhead costs per bid, the better the bottom line looks.
-AJ

 

[Mick Dempsey]

Everything is better in Europe ;-)

Yep, we just do the work and tell the government what we did so they can pay us our universal income

It just seems such a strange concept, I mean what does the boss actually do if not assess and price the work?

If I was a client, I’d want the guy whose name is on the trucks in front of me pitching the work, not some sharp suited back slapper.

 

[southsoundtree]

The problem lies when the bid dictates the pace of work, not the pace of work forcing the bidder to calibrate.

It's ridiculous to try to match production to something someone read in their crystal ball.

 

[Reach]

The problem lies when the bid dictates the pace of work, not the pace of work forcing the bidder to calibrate.

It's ridiculous to try to match production to something someone read in their crystal ball.

I will agree to that, within reason. In my opinion, I have failed as an estimator if the crew does not complete the project on time. UNLESS there is a reason the project is not done on time, an an inefficient crew or a lackadaisical climber/lift operator can be the cause of that problem.

An experienced estimator should be able to consistently write sufficient time into a project to make it possible for the crew to complete it on time.