Aerial Rescue info

suspension trauma. It has been talked about on TreeBuzz before - is there anything new brewing on this please? Appreciate any info. Cheers
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Although off-topic and not directly discussing vertical rescue techniques, here is some info for you.

"Suspension trauma / harness hang syndrome" is one of those topics that suffers from endless parroting and poor fact checking. Content writers latch on to the topic and parrot information without actually verifying the accuracy and authenticity of the information. And it just gets perpetually bounced around and repeated.

Here is one of the better sources of info: http://fallarrest.com/suspension-trauma-fact-fiction/
(at least the author tries to bring together a balanced set of information and links).

Medical link: https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(10)00320-0/fulltext

...

What amazes me the most is that many content writers fail to distinguish between a person who is unconscious and hanging motionless versus a person who is conscious and able to move about.
It is the former situation that might present a concern but more research needs to be done.
Obviously, a conscious person wont be hanging motionless!
 
ghostice said:
Steve never met but I’ve heard Dave Stice on the podcast with ClimbingArborist and one thing that hasn’t been mentioned is suspension trauma. It has been talked about on TreeBuzz before - is there anything new brewing on this please? Appreciate any info. Cheers
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There are no documented cases of suspension trauma in the Arb world or even the IRA world. Where you typically find it is with the fall arrest harnesses. Our harnesses are made to not cut off the blood flow in the femoral arteries. You will see it in a hung parachutists or maybe a huter who fell out of a tree stand into their webbing harness. Also someone ejected from a lift wearing only fall arrest. Our stuff is designed to prevent that under all circumstances. Not saying it can't or won't happen, but a properly sized saddle shouldn't produce Susp Trauma. Thanks for asking. We did touch on it at ARC but only to point out, its not a big concern for Arbs.
 
I once fell asleep in a climbing harness I was using as a deer stand. I believe I was asleep for ten minutes or so. I didn't die. I also don't believe that modern arborist saddles are a problem, and also agree with @Steve Connally that the cheesy webbing fall arrest harnesses could very well be a serious problem. Even if they didn't cause suspension trauma, I don't think highly restricted blood flow to your legs would be a good thing.

Actually nice to see the subject revisited, though. Luckily, comfy harnesses are what arbs want, and what the OEMs are trying to produce. All they really need to work on is an air conditioned one with a built in waffle iron.
 
JeffGu said:
I once fell asleep in a climbing harness I was using as a deer stand. I believe I was asleep for ten minutes or so. I didn't die. I also don't believe that modern arborist saddles are a problem, and also agree with @Steve Connally that the cheesy webbing fall arrest harnesses could very well be a serious problem. Even if they didn't cause suspension trauma, I don't think highly restricted blood flow to your legs would be a good thing.

Actually nice to see the subject revisited, though. Luckily, comfy harnesses are what arbs want, and what the OEMs are trying to produce. All they really need to work on is an air conditioned one with a built in waffle iron.
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I like all of that except for the part where they don't have anything that they need to work on. There are a lot of things that I still want in a harness that are not available, but that is way off topic.
 
I'm super excited about the new saddle Camp is coming out with. Fully class 3 and meets the standard for arboriculture and Industrial Rope Access. That will most likely be my next harness. Something that fits the bill for both.
 
ghostice said:
Steve, maybe it's OK for municipalities or big businesses but I saw one Camp saddle that was listed for ~ $1900.00+ - way way outa my price range . . . . .
These things are going to have to be affordable for mass use. Just sayin'.
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Looking at website even the bridge has a price of $1962.03 - maybe a typo...
 
Just a note of thanks for the valuable info on this thread. I've learned a lot of valuable information, after listening to the Climbingarborist.com podcast with Dave Stice, and have watched a few aerial rescue videos, all very informative.

I have one question, when it comes to climbing with a 2nd back-up line. I've heard that the Petzl ASAP is a top choice for a fall arrest device that captures progress and moves up and down the 2nd climbing line with the climber, relative to a climber's positioning on the main climbing line. Are there other good options, like the RollNlock, or other similar devices a lot of climbers might have on hand? At Wesspur, the ASAP seems to be the only product in this category, but I've also found that CT, Kong, have similar products that serve a similar function.

This is only speculation and I think I'd be OK using a RollNLock (RNL) in this manner, while not as efficiently designed for this purpose, as the ASAP, in the event of a shock load, the RNL might slip somewhat on the rope when shock loaded perhaps up to 20kN, but I'm guessing it might also serve as an smoothly tending rope-grabbing capture device on ascent and still sufficiently grab and hold the climber in the event of fall from a main climbing line failure.

Dave and Dan discuss the advantages of climbing with a pre-installed back-up line to vastly improve a climber's overall safety, as well as other insights gleaned from his recent Aerial Rescue Clinic.

The ClimbingArborist Podcast on Youtube is @

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Steve Connally said:
There are others like the Goblin but it’s all about how it complies to the standards. The asap and ASAP lock fall into the standard for industrial rope access. You’d have to dig and look to see what compliant.
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Thanks Steve...

Does anyone have any advise for or against using just a rope-grab or a RollNLock, like you would an ASAP? I don't think it would strip the cover off a rope, rather than slip before grabbing, but I haven't seen any load tests, accept for Richard's which show the RNL slipping without damaging the rope, at least until the stopper knot forces the rope to break apart. Maybe the fact that the ASAP tends slack in both directions, and the RNL only captures progress is the obvious difference, but I'm more concerned about overall safety in this regard when ascending with a connection to a 2nd back-up line.
 
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John@TreeXP said:
Thanks Steve...

Does anyone have any advise for or against using just a rope-grab or a RollNLock, like you would an ASAP? I don't think it would strip the cover off a rope, rather than slip before grabbing, but I haven't seen any load tests, accept for Richard's which show the RNL slipping without damaging the rope, at least until the stopper knot forces the rope to break apart. Maybe the fact that the ASAP tends slack in both directions, and the RNL only captures progress is the obvious difference, but I'm more concerned about overall safety in this regard when ascending with a connection to a 2nd back-up line.
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I believe that for ascent a rope grab would be an adequate back up. The main difference as you stated is that the ASAP is multi directional. However , my understanding is that the ASAP and similar devices are designed to engage in "abnormal" uses...i.e fall or gear failure. I have used one a handful of times in training and it is pretty slick. Once on and working you pretty well forget that it is there. I must also say that these training scenerios are conducted on a high rise structure without multiple re-directs and obstacles...may take some getting used to in a tree
 
RyTheTreeGuy said:
I believe that for ascent a rope grab would be an adequate back up. The main difference as you stated is that the ASAP is multi directional. However , my understanding is that the ASAP and similar devices are designed to engage in "abnormal" uses...i.e fall or gear failure. I have used one a handful of times in training and it is pretty slick. Once on and working you pretty well forget that it is there. I must also say that these training scenerios are conducted on a high rise structure without multiple re-directs and obstacles...may take some getting used to in a tree
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Blowing through the TIP seems more likely to be a concern for rec climbers, causing a possible failure. Using two or three climbing lines, counting a lanyard, does make for some interesting traverses and positioning opportunities.
 
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