Fascism, American-Style

[Mike Islander]

Just a brief interjection here, but I can't think of a person this fits better than Trump. He is a lot better at this than Bill Clinton ever was. 'Crooked Joe Biden is the worst president in the history of this country', 'I will deal with the Biden Crime family', etc, etc. Says a person convicted of 34 felonies by a non-partisan jury, with judgements against him for sexual predation, and an almost endless host of his former lackies and advisors already in jail for perjury. A person whose own military advisors from his previous term have begged us not to vote for him and in one case specifically labeled him a fascist. Hard to see how all this is an imagined alternate reality.

You have a good point. He's a shitty human in many ways. But his past policies and current staff (RFJ, Tulsi, etc.) are already working to overturn the ridiculous policies of the Biden administration.

Probably news to many democrats is that many (most?) of us who voted for Trump would not call him a character of pure morals. But we know from experience that his policies outweigh the outrageous conduct of the Biden administration.

RFK posted this already. So overdue!
“FDA’s war on public health is about to end,” Kennedy wrote on social media shortly before the election, referring to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

“This includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamins, clean foods, sunshine, exercise, nutraceuticals and anything else that advances human health and can’t be patented by Pharma. If you work for the FDA and are part of this corrupt system, I have two messages for you: 1. Preserve your records, and 2. Pack your bags.”

FACTS
Thankfully with so many independent broadcasters podcasts and YouTubers in the news today, old news can't get away with fooling (as many of) the American people anymore. This is an analysis by AI of just a few of the lies told over and over and over and over by what used to be the mainstream media. Now essentially dead. Good riddance to them. I can tolerate biased media if they admit that they are biased. As long as they tell the truth, I can tolerate it. We can disagree on our opinions. But I can't tolerate outright liars.

"Trump ran up more debt than any president."
Obama (2009-2017):
Approximately $11.8-12.2 trillion in today's dollars (adjusted from $9.3 trillion)

Trump (2017-2021):
Approximately $8.7-9 trillion in today's dollars (adjusted from $7.8 trillion)

Russia collusion narrative: While Russian interference in 2016 was confirmed, the specific allegations of direct Trump-Russia conspiracy/coordination were not proven by the Mueller investigation, leading to corrections by several outlets.

Lafayette Square clearing: Initial widespread reporting that protesters were cleared specifically for a photo op was later contradicted by the Interior Department IG report, leading to corrections.

Georgia phone call: Initial reports about Trump telling officials to "find the fraud" used quotes that were later retracted as not verbatim.

Early COVID vaccine development timeline: Claims that Operation Warp Speed had no role were later revised by fact-checkers.

Steele Dossier: Many specific claims that received extensive coverage were later debunked or retracted by outlets that had reported them.

AI Analysis: Focusing on prominent media claims that were later disproven or appear demonstrably incorrect, with confidence ratings:

"Trump will refuse to leave office/stage a coup after losing" (98% confidence this claim was false given peaceful transfer occurred)

"The Hunter Biden laptop story is Russian disinformation" (95% confidence this media narrative was false, as major outlets later authenticated key elements)

"Trump called neo-Nazis 'fine people' in Charlottesville" (90% confidence this was false - full transcript shows he explicitly condemned them)

"Trump told Georgia officials to 'find the fraud'" (90% confidence the specific quote was false - Washington Post issued correction)

"Trump colluded directly with Russia to win 2016" (85% confidence this broad claim was false based on Mueller report conclusions)

"Trump ordered tear gas used on protesters for a church photo" (85% confidence this was false per Interior Department IG report)

"Trump suggested injecting bleach as COVID treatment" (80% confidence this was a mischaracterization - he asked about UV light/disinfectant research)

"Trump called all immigrants 'animals'" (80% confidence this was false - context shows MS-13 gang reference)

"Trump removed MLK bust from Oval Office" (90% confidence false - reporter corrected this within hours)

"Trump campaign changed GOP platform to favor Russia" (85% confidence false - later reporting showed this didn't occur)

 

[Bart_]

I mostly remember trump doing the backwards-day thing in media; peaceful happy tourists at the insurrection, protecting all women - by the p_ssy, news video camera recordings of factual items are all fake etc

OTOH we may get more chasing/threatening reporters from/with the podium per the SNL skit - that was funny

 

[Serf Life]

I figure it's sarcasm. But I think it doesn't work if you actually believe the Trump administration will actually wipe out animals, create widespread dirty water and air. So it's funny if you don't believe it (because clearly sarcasm contradicting accusations that conservatives don't care about those things) and funny if you do believe it because it's false based on 4 years of Trump in his previous administration.

Dude are you serious? I honestly can’t tell

The Trump Administration Rolled Back More Than 100 Environmental Rules. Here’s the Full List. (Published 2021)

The Trump administration has dismantled nearly 100 policies focused on clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals, and left more than a dozen rollbacks unfinished. Here’s how they add up.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Mike Islander]

And you wonder why I fear for our future.

You should feel relieved now that Trump will be president. Listing actions of the last three presidents that might lean toward fascism, Obama and Biden make Trump look like an abject amateur compared to their fascist capers.

Let me list strictly documented policy actions that align with traditional fascist elements (centralization of power, suppression of opposition, state control):

Obama:

1. NDAA authorizing indefinite military detention of US citizens without trial
2. Used Espionage Act against whistleblowers more than all previous presidents combined
3. Expanded executive "kill list" authority including US citizens without judicial review

Trump:

1. Expanded federal law enforcement deployment authority without state consent
2. Used emergency powers to redirect military funding for border wall construction
3. Increased executive branch control over federal bureaucracy through Schedule F

Biden:

1. Coordinated with tech companies to suppress specific viewpoints labeled "misinformation"
2. Expanded domestic terrorism framework to potentially target political opposition
3. Used federal agencies (IRS, FBI) with unusual focus on political opponents

 

[Mike Islander]

Dude are you serious? I honestly can’t tell

The Trump Administration Rolled Back More Than 100 Environmental Rules. Here’s the Full List. (Published 2021)

The Trump administration has dismantled nearly 100 policies focused on clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals, and left more than a dozen rollbacks unfinished. Here’s how they add up.

www.nytimes.com

I'm serious because I believe we can balance production with environmental protection. I think you're overreacting. Your sarcasm basically said that anyone who doesn't agree with your position literally hates animals and wants dirty air and water. Of course that's ridiculous. We still have all kinds of Protections in place for animals, air, and water. It's that type of hyperbole that makes it impossible for me to take you seriously.

And it's that binary type of thinking that was rejected on November 5th. Nuanced thinking is important, and those who are incapable of it have been rejected.

 

[Serf Life]

Coming from memory so had to find the specifics. https://www.scientificamerican.com/...-easier-for-coal-plants-to-pollute-waterways/

Trump administration finalizes coal plant pollution rollback

The changes finalized Monday will allow utilities to use cheaper wastewater cleanup technologies and take longer to comply with pollution reduction guidelines adopted in 2015.

www.pbs.org

 

[Mike Islander]

And that is where you delude yourself. They will not work to overturn ONLY Biden's policies (which, by the way, are what's fixing America's infrastructure and improving Medicare right now).

They will work to overturn the Federal Government, Department of Education, the Constitution, etc. Supporting those goals makes you the opposite of a patriot.

You talk about my lack of intellectual curiosity, but I've read Project 2025. Have you? And why in Hell are you talking about Obama? You have a lot bigger problems ahead than Obama.

FYI, the message I posted above was my resignation-from-giving-a-shit letter. I've spent too much of my life watching trump destroy this country--and steal people's minds. I plan to rest my eyes while you all wreck shit.

But you did validate the primary reason why I wrote to everyone I know: to force people to take responsibility for their trump votes. I will in the coming years ask most people I meet if they voted for trump; I will likely end the pleasantries on that note. I believe that a conscious vote for trump and the hate he represents is beyond redemption.

For everyone’s sake, we should hope that my hysteria is unwarranted. But that's like saying January 6th was a picnic. History will tell the story.

Have a good life.

Overturn the constitution? Overturn the government? Project 2025?

Your fear isn't warranted by Trump's fiirst term. Project 2025 is the latest recommended goals from the Heritage Foundation, not the Trump platform. Eliminating the department of education? I'm leaning toward this being a very good thing. It's failed unbelievably. I'm not convinced, but I'm not panicking about that happening.

 

[Serf Life]

I’m actually pretty balanced in my reaction, just not apathetic. I’m a fan of history, and forestry which includes centuries of land management and the outcomes. Talk about doing research, what is so bad about the Paris accords when we pollute so much more per capita than the other joined nations?

 

[Serf Life]

The short term fix of de regulation and increased extraction is not new tactics, but is proven to be detrimental for the land in the short and long term. Economics 101

 

[Burrapeg]

I'm serious because I believe we can balance production with environmental protection . . .

You are serious all right, seriously deluded, if you think Trump's 'Drill, baby, drill' (his words) attitude has anything to do with balance or environmental consciousness. That is not to say the Dems have an excellent record on this themselves, but they are at least more answerable to the voices demanding balance and the Earth's long term health over corporate profits. And even if we agree with any of Trump's policies and goals, it is still delusional to think they have anything to do with what might benefit the ordinary guy on the street or the average small US business. Consider simply the basic long-standing GOP goal of ditching the Affordable Care Act with its protections for pre-existing conditions. They continually wrap this up with BS like they are fighting 'creeping communism' etc. while medical costs are the single greatest cause, decade after decade, of small business bankruptcy in the US, not to mention personal bankruptcy. What they are really doing is listening to the insurance lobby in Washington, the largest lobby in existence, line their pockets with campaign contributions. The Democrats at least try to resist this a bit better and have a FAR better record of legislation that helps regular people. And this is not a partisan issue. Trump supporters have as much to lose as anyone else. The best we can hope for, I think, is a repeat of his first four years where most of his biggest promises turned out to be hot air and stuff he said to just get votes. A lot of what he promised never came to pass, including Mexico paying for his precious wall or any lasting solution to immigration during his term. Vast amounts of his energy was expended just venting at anyone who disagreed with him. Hopeful this will be the case again, with hair-brained and frankly dangerous schemes like his blanket tariffs never getting off the ground. This temporary majority who were swayed into voting for him will evaporate when they experience the reality of his ineptitude for four more years; and we will finally be rid of the arsehole and can then start undoing any damage he does in a second term. Assuming any of it is not irreparable, like maybe a major war resulting from him giving Putin a free hand. I see today in the news that he has asked Putin to go easy on Ukraine. This is his big 'end the war in 24 hours' solution? He ASKS Putin? Yeah, that is going to work.

 

[Mike Islander]

You are serious all right, seriously deluded, if you think Trump's 'Drill, baby, drill' (his words) attitude has anything to do with balance or environmental consciousness. That is not to say the Dems have an excellent record on this themselves, but they are at least more answerable to the voices demanding balance and the Earth's long term health over corporate profits. And even if we agree with any of Trump's policies and goals, it is still delusional to think they have anything to do with what might benefit the ordinary guy on the street or the average small US business. Consider simply the basic long-standing GOP goal of ditching the Affordable Care Act with its protections for pre-existing conditions. They continually wrap this up with BS like they are fighting 'creeping communism' etc. while medical costs are the single greatest cause, decade after decade, of small business bankruptcy in the US, not to mention personal bankruptcy. What they are really doing is listening to the insurance lobby in Washington, the largest lobby in existence, line their pockets with campaign contributions. The Democrats at least try to resist this a bit better and have a FAR better record of legislation that helps regular people. And this is not a partisan issue. Trump supporters have as much to lose as anyone else. The best we can hope for, I think, is a repeat of his first four years where most of his biggest promises turned out to be hot air and stuff he said to just get votes. A lot of what he promised never came to pass, including Mexico paying for his precious wall or any lasting solution to immigration during his term. Vast amounts of his energy was expended just venting at anyone who disagreed with him. Hopeful this will be the case again, with hair-brained and frankly dangerous schemes like his blanket tariffs never getting off the ground. This temporary majority who were swayed into voting for him will evaporate when they experience the reality of his ineptitude for four more years; and we will finally be rid of the arsehole and can then start undoing any damage he does in a second term. Assuming any of it is not irreparable, like maybe a major war resulting from him giving Putin a free hand. I see today in the news that he has asked Putin to go easy on Ukraine. This is his big 'end the war in 24 hours' solution? He ASKS Putin? Yeah, that is going to work.

We'll hopefully both be here in a year or two to discuss how things go.

 

[Serf Life]

the examples already happened is the point Burrapeg and I are making, increased drilling and loosening existing protections. The past is easily searchable, for news or the actual legalese

 

[rico]

I think it will take more than two years for you and your ilk to regain consciousness.

But he’s got trump golden tennis shoes in his closet, a trump bible on his nightstand, and trump steaks in the fridge to keep him happy.

 

[treegongfu]

Jerry Springer, a life long Democrat is dead!
He died in 2023

 

[Mike Islander]

For a bunch of amoral, deluded souls, you sure like that word "psychosis."

You already lost (the argument and the election). Call me whatever names you want.

 

[Mike Islander]

Historically, metaphorically, and literally, following a "shitty human" because he'll do all the hateful shit you dream of is equivalent to selling your soul to the Devil.

Hateful shit? You're literally calling me names and in your very next post you talk about hate and selling souls. You've been gaslighted. You're a troubled soul. Trump's an ass, but I like far more of his policies than the canoe club we've seen over these last four years.

I've never hated anyone or anything in my life, except a snake that ate a meadow vole that I hand-raised. But I got over that in a few seconds. I don't hate the blue people who hate me, but that hate is very motivating to fight against those people. You'll feel better if you just move on and realize that the pendulum will swing back far too soon for me.

 

[Burrapeg]

I dont' recall us being at each others' throats like this before Trump came along. Anyone who says his rhetoric and overall influence has not consistently been divisive is ignoring the truth. As far as I am concerned, the sooner he is in the past and forgotten the better, regardless of which party is in power later.

 

[treegongfu]

What the fxxx are you talking about?

I fear you are a little too unhinged to chat about this.
I'm ok so it feels mean.

 

[Boomslang]

Did we really need a Fu*%face Von Clownstick 2.0 thread?

 

[Serf Life]

Heard an awesome Nick Fuentes quote yesterday. Seems like good company to have over for dinner.