Where to start?

Suuz

Suuz

New member
Location
The Netherlands
As mentioned in my introduction I started working as a TreeWorker about 1,5 years ago. Soon after that I started climbing too. For me, it's the best part of the job. l made it my goal to be able to do most of my work climbing (meaning climbing several trees a day for 3 or 4 days a week).

Last year september I started an offical course to become an licenced Tree Worker and I had my first offical climbing lessons. I'm supposed to praktice at work, but we hardly have jobs that require climbing so I don't do it very often. I also missed out on my exams because of a (climbing) injury and I haven't been able to climb for half a year. Recently a got the green light to start climbing again. I climbed a few trees at work and I also started to workout (CrossFit) to work on my strenght and durability.

I find climbing trees realy hard to master. I have no experience with climbing or something similar and I feel often overwhelmed by all the new things. It would help if I could find some logic aproach, instead of 'just try and see what works'. Before I go in to the tree I plan my route. I climbe double loop (or with two ropes). My first goal is where I make the top anchorpoint (is that the right word? English is not my mothertongue neither is the 'climbinglanguage'). From there I descent to the branches that I need to cut.
Often I get lost in the tree before I reach the top. It also takes a hell of a lot of time. It feels like I miss some kind of information or understanding other climbers seem te have. It doesn't improve by practise (or at least not whit the practise I get now).

Any thoughts on how to get some clarity in this chaos?
 
"Tree climbers companion" is a great reference.

Practice throwball, in my opinion, very helpful. I like to get a nice tie in point before leaving the ground so that you can start working the tree right away.

Focus on the small things, slow and low, eventually it will "click" and all come together!

Learn srt as well, you may find that to be much easier. Use ascenders, knee and foot.

Climbing trees in parks or the forest when you are not working is a great way to get comfortable in a low pressure setting.
 
You have discovered one of the main trade offs - busy busy vs thinking/planning out your climb. DRT (double loop) with small bits of altitude or TIP (tie in point) advancement keep you busy going up while using a big shot and throw line.weight to set a high TIP eats time but rewards you with removing all the in tree TIP advancing effort.

A fellow named Reg Coates posted about arm/shoulder/back injury from all the arm effort of DRT climbing and how SRT came to his rescue - SRT uses more leg power. Worth a look.


Watch hemet cam climb videos and watch the techniques captured there to learn from.
 
In addition to above, YouTube can be your friend a bit. A US climber Lawrence Schultz used to have an online purchase-able video series that showed safe progression from DdRT to SRT etc. but it doesn't appear to be available online anymore (just checked). See if you can bum it off somebody maybe. Reg Coates on YouTube is great, there's stuff from Bartlett arborist supply on YouTube, and Treestuff has webinars, as does TCIA. I've seen some stuff from Netherlands on YouTube but some of it is a bit sketchy to me at times. August Hunicke works conifers a lot and he is an old hand at it and explains things well. I liked watching Travor Ahern on YouTube because he just posted raw video, uncut, so you could see him move around spreading trees, get set up for cranework and the like. He made no bones about perfection - just the way he did the work. Also look up some of TreeImagineers/ Mark Bridge's stuff - their site has links to a bunch of info and maybe you'll find your way to Augsburg for the arb conference there one year? And I do like Metaspencer and Zaccheus on YouTube too (just me tho). Watch enough and you'll find different climbers approach and climb trees differently. BUT there's lots on YouTube that I wouldn't do too . . . . .
One thing I would say is if you don't feel comfortable don't push. Low and slow till you know your gear inside out. And these days, dont get "geared out" - if only you had this new shiny thing life would be so much better. No. Find a couple of things and play with them consistently til you know your "system" cold. Be careful in descending, always.
And recognize too, somebody working conifers all their life will probably still be a bit uncomfortable when working a spreading tree even with nice high tie points and 6 inch to 12 inch branches to walk on. Now take that same guy and put him into a spready tree with 2 to 4 inch branches pointing skyward and no huge tiepoints and it's a different experience again.
And maybe the folks in ISA local chapters, climbing competitions or the like can give you a hand. And nothing wrong with taking a "course" or two. Enjoy the ride. This is a great point in time to be involved in climbing and trees.
 
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I did exactly what has been mentioned above. Even watching videos from competitions, since I couldn't go to any. Watching people climb, especially full work climbs in person as a groundie, but also very much through youtube videos. If you study the reputable literature recomended here and by ISA and other such orgs, you should have no trouble telling the difference between a good climber/rigger/cutter when you watch them work.

Climb as often as you can for fun though, as there is no pressure to do anything and you have time to think about what you are doing, but really think about it- before, during and after. Try to map out a route in your mind, before a climb, that you think makes sense to a branch where you would make a hypothetical cut. Then really pay attention as you attempt to follow that rpute whether it really feels like the best way there, or is there some path you see from up it in that you think might have been easier. Try that next time.

Climb many types of trees if possible, and pay attention to their differences. Also, learning to use SRT will open up a lot of options and usually makes getting to work much faster so that you can spend time focusing on improving your cutting and work positioning.
 
I have found it useful to start by recognizing your learning type. I learn by doing (failing) but it sounds like you have a more effective learning style than that. Some people learn best with text, others with video, others with conversation. There are a few great online instructors as have been mentioned. The Educated Climber makes videos specifically targeted to folks like yourself. But that content will only work for certain learning styles.

Ultimately I feel like the best situation is an in person mentor who can coach you throughout your entire day and fill you in on all the nuances that come with repetition. Sounds like your work situation doesn’t have that at the moment, depending on how seriously you feel about it, maybe keep looking for opportunities with great climbers who you vibe with, even if it means travel, relocation. Sounds like you won’t be able to progress very quickly with the situation you describe.

If you can travel to the states, I know there’s a 3 day climbing workshop in Michigan coming up - put on by a great organization, and as a plus, it’s for women - I actually don’t know any mixed gender climbing trainings like it, but others may. The climbing competitions, as folks have said, kind of serve as trainings in a way, and also a very good idea to attend.

www.womenstreeclimbingworkshop.com

WTCW | Women's Tree Climbing Workshop® | Tree Climbing for Women

WTCW - The Women's Tree Climbing Workshop®'s mission is to create a safe, encouraging, and empowering learning environment for women to climb trees, with an emphasis on arboriculture. Since 2009 - Education. Empowerment. Leadership. #treeclimbing #WTCW #ForWomenTaughtbyWomen #climbtrees...
www.womenstreeclimbingworkshop.com www.womenstreeclimbingworkshop.com
 
Suuz said:
As mentioned in my introduction I started working as a TreeWorker about 1,5 years ago. Soon after that I started climbing too. For me, it's the best part of the job. l made it my goal to be able to do most of my work climbing (meaning climbing several trees a day for 3 or 4 days a week).

Last year september I started an offical course to become an licenced Tree Worker and I had my first offical climbing lessons. I'm supposed to praktice at work, but we hardly have jobs that require climbing so I don't do it very often. I also missed out on my exams because of a (climbing) injury and I haven't been able to climb for half a year. Recently a got the green light to start climbing again. I climbed a few trees at work and I also started to workout (CrossFit) to work on my strenght and durability.

I find climbing trees realy hard to master. I have no experience with climbing or something similar and I feel often overwhelmed by all the new things. It would help if I could find some logic aproach, instead of 'just try and see what works'. Before I go in to the tree I plan my route. I climbe double loop (or with two ropes). My first goal is where I make the top anchorpoint (is that the right word? English is not my mothertongue neither is the 'climbinglanguage'). From there I descent to the branches that I need to cut.
Often I get lost in the tree before I reach the top. It also takes a hell of a lot of time. It feels like I miss some kind of information or understanding other climbers seem te have. It doesn't improve by practise (or at least not whit the practise I get now).

Any thoughts on how to get some clarity in this chaos?
Click to expand...
The single best thing you could do is to get a job working with a tree service that has at least one good climber that climbs on a near daily basis. Start at the bottom and work your way up, which has been and is still the best way to become a well rounded climber. Earn while you Learn. And do yourself a favor by becoming proficient in both MRS and SRT. You will thank me later. Good luck in your voyage young grasshopper.
 
Stumpsprouts said:
I have found it useful to start by recognizing your learning type. I learn by doing (failing) but it sounds like you have a more effective learning style than that. Some people learn best with text, others with video, others with conversation. There are a few great online instructors as have been mentioned. The Educated Climber makes videos specifically targeted to folks like yourself. But that content will only work for certain learning styles.

Ultimately I feel like the best situation is an in person mentor who can coach you throughout your entire day and fill you in on all the nuances that come with repetition. Sounds like your work situation doesn’t have that at the moment, depending on how seriously you feel about it, maybe keep looking for opportunities with great climbers who you vibe with, even if it means travel, relocation. Sounds like you won’t be able to progress very quickly with the situation you describe.

If you can travel to the states, I know there’s a 3 day climbing workshop in Michigan coming up - put on by a great organization, and as a plus, it’s for women - I actually don’t know any mixed gender climbing trainings like it, but others may. The climbing competitions, as folks have said, kind of serve as trainings in a way, and also a very good idea to attend.

www.womenstreeclimbingworkshop.com

WTCW | Women's Tree Climbing Workshop® | Tree Climbing for Women

WTCW - The Women's Tree Climbing Workshop®'s mission is to create a safe, encouraging, and empowering learning environment for women to climb trees, with an emphasis on arboriculture. Since 2009 - Education. Empowerment. Leadership. #treeclimbing #WTCW #ForWomenTaughtbyWomen #climbtrees...
www.womenstreeclimbingworkshop.com www.womenstreeclimbingworkshop.com
Click to expand...
Definitely helps a ton to have a mentor actively coaching while you climb
 
Find a climbing mentor, not one that is stuck up but one that is encouraging. Climb at every opportunity you can get.
Start low and slow and build up.
Learn as much as you can here on the Buzz, one of the best online places to learn.
 
With the correct equipment climbing a tree is easy.

You need a rope and harness. A throw bag and a throw line.

You need a multicender such as a Rope Runner Pro, a Bull Dog Bone, or the Akimbo.

You need a chest harness, a foot ascender and a knee ascender.

Get a good TIP, a base anchor and climb up.

It sounds like you need to climb just for fun as others have said.

TIP = top anchor point.
 
@rico Thanks for calling me a young grashopper .

@Stumpsprouts Thanks for mentioning learning style. Learning my doing is not my style indeed. The whole learning course to become a Tree Worker in the Netherlands is based on practical learning, I'm having a hard time with that.
I'm a top-down learner. I need to see the whole picture before I leard the pieces/steps. I also like to have some theoretical knowledge before I start practicing.
Having a mentor would be great. I'm playing with the idea to seek a mentor for every skill I want to develop more, to learn form the best. I'm not tied down to were I live now and it would be great to see what treecare looks like in other countries.

Matias said:
Climb as often as you can for fun though, as there is no pressure to do anything and you have time to think about what you are doing, but really think about it- before, during and after. Try to map out a route in your mind, before a climb, that you think makes sense to a branch where you would make a hypothetical cut. Then really pay attention as you attempt to follow that rpute whether it really feels like the best way there, or is there some path you see from up it in that you think might have been easier. Try that next time.
Click to expand...
This is a realy good one. Thank you!

As on DRT en SRT. In the course that I take I need to climb DRT. And my exams will bee soon, so I want to focus on that first.
 
Suuz said:
@rico Thanks for calling me a young grashopper .

@Stumpsprouts Thanks for mentioning learning style. Learning my doing is not my style indeed. The whole learning course to become a Tree Worker in the Netherlands is based on practical learning, I'm having a hard time with that.
I'm a top-down learner. I need to see the whole picture before I leard the pieces/steps. I also like to have some theoretical knowledge before I start practicing.
Having a mentor would be great. I'm playing with the idea to seek a mentor for every skill I want to develop more, to learn form the best. I'm not tied down to were I live now and it would be great to see what treecare looks like in other countries.


This is a realy good one. Thank you!

As on DRT en SRT. In the course that I take I need to climb DRT. And my exams will bee soon, so I want to focus on that first.
Click to expand...
In my opinion climbing DRT is an essential skill.

When I train new climbers I will take them up a few times SRT first but after they are 100% on DRT systems until they become fluid.
 
I’m wondering if by seeing the whole picture means looking at it through an evolutionary lense. See what it was like in the ‘good’ old days, what the harnesses looked like, how they evolved to be the way they are. Instead of getting handed a foot ascender and being shown how to use it, maybe you need to know why someone thought of using it and how it makes your life easier. Learning DRT would therefore be an essential stepping stone for you. Once you can get up and down using the earlier methods, add the innovations as you go in the same order they were developed and embraced by everyone. You’ll see why things are the way they are, and maybe even see ahead as to how things might continue to evolve.

*I would not recommend using an ancient harness though.*
 
Every tree and situation is different. You can have a plan on the ground but then when you’re up in the canopy and seeing things from a different perspective you may find yourself at times questioning what you were you going to do and considering whether you shouldn’t do something different. This doesn’t necessarily speak to a lack of experience in all cases but is simply the nature of tree work. Sometimes you have to adapt and adjust.

Work at a pace that is right for you. Some climbers may move through the tree real fast, others may take it at a more controlled and steady pace. At the end of the day what matters is that you’re able to complete the work safely and in a timeframe that is reasonable / efficient for your specific operation (this could vary for everyone).

As others have mentioned you can invest in books / study material, watch videos on YouTube, etc. to continue learning and furthering your skills / knowledge but also climb. Not just in a work setting but outside of work when you don’t have the pressure of actually completing a job. When I first started climbing I would climb the trees around my property, read up on or watch videos of different climbing techniques, etc. and then go and practice it.

The longer you climb and as you gain more experience you may find certain things become kind of routine that you don’t necessarily have to think a lot about. For example, how you may approach a widespread canopy on a prune, or a multi-stem removal, or what climbing / rigging system you use in certain situations, etc. However, I’m not sure there’s such a thing as “mastering” climbing or tree work as even the most experienced climber may once in a while find themselves in a situation that requires some critical thinking and evaluation of strategy and planning. And whether you have a few years on the job or decades of experience, there’s always going to be opportunities to continue furthering one’s knowledge and skills.
 
I started reading 'Tree climbers companion'. @levi r I'm so grateful for that tip!
Reading the information and processing it in my own pace, without having to practice it immediately, really helps a great deal. Apparently it's key for how I learn. Also reading it all, to have a theoretical understanding of the whole picture really helps to process the information and to put the different pieces in to place. Finally things start to make sense.
 
I don't have my own copy of the book yet. Searching online I only found webshops outside the EU and the shipping costs are high. Is there a seller within the EU? Or is there another way to get the book for a more affordable shippingprice?
 
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