- Location
- Elkton, VA
Good day. Just wondering if any of you have had trouble or heard of issues with Cat diesel engines on Bandit chippers? Also, how have your experiences been with Bandit service? I will post some info on our experiences.
New Bandit 19XPC with Cat C4.4 Diesel Problems
- Thread starter kenten
- Start date
- Location
- Elkton, VA
We bought a 19XPC new in October 2023 for our equipment rental fleet. It has the 174-HP Cat C4.4 diesel (made by Perkins, I believe). The dealer is Valley Equipment in Harrisonburg, VA, part of the Winchester Equipment group.
This chipper has thrown codes and derated - if not every time - almost every time it has been rented out. It will be running at full throttle and suddenly cut back to an idle, sometimes leaving the discharge plugged with chips due to the sudden deceleration. It is always the same three or four codes, related to the DPF/DEF system. Usually the machine will chip again after fully shutting down and restarting and clearing the codes.
In December we sent it back to the dealer for repair. Between the dealer and Caterpillar, it took them over 4 weeks to return it to us with the information that there is nothing wrong with the machine - supposedly it had just been allowed to idle too much, leading to soot buildup.
Over the next few months, we continued to rent the machine out, trying to remind customers to work it hard and minimize idle time. Customers love its performance (when it's running) and most have been able to get their jobs done in spite of the sporadic de-rates and resulting inconvenience. Meanwhile, we also kept communicating with the dealer service department. Unfortunately the de-rates have become more frequent, sometimes twice in an hour.
So now it's back at the dealer for 2.5 weeks and counting. They have fortunately quit blaming it on too much idle time, but so far have not been able to diagnose the problem and fix it.
A local tree service just bought a new 19XPC with the Deere diesel and reports that it has not been giving any trouble. He said he was told that Bandit has been having a lot of issues with the Cat engines. The dealer service manager admitted to me also that the Cats have been more trouble-prone.
At this point we are pretty frustrated with the level of service we are receiving. We have asked for a loaner chipper, and all the dealer can come up with is, "we don't do that anymore. We don't rent out chippers and don't have any to offer as a loaner." Meanwhile our costly investment is dead in the water with 114 hours on the meter. We feel that Bandit and/or the dealer is failing to meet its obligations; they received their money but we don't have a chipper.
We had a similar experience in 2022 when the PSI 4.3L gas engine blew up on a 15XPC. Fortunately it was still within the 3-year engine warranty period. But it took them four months to get that engine replaced.
I'm curious if this is the kind of service you receive or expect from your Bandit dealers.
We currently have a lineup of late-model Bandit chippers, but it looks like that may be starting to change if something doesn't break loose soon.
If you've managed to read this far, thanks! And if you have any helpful insight, please share it. Meanwhile, I strongly suggest you avoid Bandit chippers with newer Cat engines with DPF systems.
This chipper has thrown codes and derated - if not every time - almost every time it has been rented out. It will be running at full throttle and suddenly cut back to an idle, sometimes leaving the discharge plugged with chips due to the sudden deceleration. It is always the same three or four codes, related to the DPF/DEF system. Usually the machine will chip again after fully shutting down and restarting and clearing the codes.
In December we sent it back to the dealer for repair. Between the dealer and Caterpillar, it took them over 4 weeks to return it to us with the information that there is nothing wrong with the machine - supposedly it had just been allowed to idle too much, leading to soot buildup.
Over the next few months, we continued to rent the machine out, trying to remind customers to work it hard and minimize idle time. Customers love its performance (when it's running) and most have been able to get their jobs done in spite of the sporadic de-rates and resulting inconvenience. Meanwhile, we also kept communicating with the dealer service department. Unfortunately the de-rates have become more frequent, sometimes twice in an hour.
So now it's back at the dealer for 2.5 weeks and counting. They have fortunately quit blaming it on too much idle time, but so far have not been able to diagnose the problem and fix it.
A local tree service just bought a new 19XPC with the Deere diesel and reports that it has not been giving any trouble. He said he was told that Bandit has been having a lot of issues with the Cat engines. The dealer service manager admitted to me also that the Cats have been more trouble-prone.
At this point we are pretty frustrated with the level of service we are receiving. We have asked for a loaner chipper, and all the dealer can come up with is, "we don't do that anymore. We don't rent out chippers and don't have any to offer as a loaner." Meanwhile our costly investment is dead in the water with 114 hours on the meter. We feel that Bandit and/or the dealer is failing to meet its obligations; they received their money but we don't have a chipper.
We had a similar experience in 2022 when the PSI 4.3L gas engine blew up on a 15XPC. Fortunately it was still within the 3-year engine warranty period. But it took them four months to get that engine replaced.
I'm curious if this is the kind of service you receive or expect from your Bandit dealers.
We currently have a lineup of late-model Bandit chippers, but it looks like that may be starting to change if something doesn't break loose soon.
If you've managed to read this far, thanks! And if you have any helpful insight, please share it. Meanwhile, I strongly suggest you avoid Bandit chippers with newer Cat engines with DPF systems.
Last edited:
VenasNursery
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Michigan
Sorry to hear and good luck
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
Nothing runs like a…
Fivepoints
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- East of Huntsville, AL
My buddy bought a 19xp with the 174 hp cat. He has also had the derate problem. Pisses one off to spend that kinda money on a chipper and not be able to use it half the time.
- Location
- Elkton, VA
Fivepoints, how did your buddy get the problem resolved, or is it ongoing? How new is his machine?
I don't know the details, but I heard one of the other companies in my area has had a lot of problems with their tracked Bandit, related to the diesel emissions mostly. Part of why I bought the gas engine with my 12XP a bit over a year ago. As far as how good the dealers/support is, I'd assume that is just going to be location dependent based on how well the local place is run.
flyingmosstreen
Participating member
- Location
- Rochester
How do you like the gas engine?
What are RPM when chipping?
Our 12xpc runs around 2200 when wide open.
We did have a DPF issue, called a cat mechanic for a service call to reset codes. Hasn’t let us down in that regard since (knock on wood.)
We did however have the pilot bearing go out right around the end of the “warranty” period. Nothing that was our fault. We don’t hog 12” logs daily or really ever.
We have been trying to find a unit with a different clutch setup instead of the NACD clutch.
I got mine with the 145hp PSI engine, biggest gas engine option on the 12XP at the time I bought it a bit over a year ago I think it was. I believe it runs at about 2,400 RPM with no load, honestly not sure what RPM it drops to before the autofeed kicks in. I only have like 175 hours on it since I don't use it daily and also have another chipper.
I've been very happy with it and had no mechanical problems at all. My other chipper is an 85hp diesel Vermeer BC1000XL which feels like a bit of a toy compared to the 12XP, and the winch on the Bandit is worth its weight in gold, total game changer for my work.
I've been very happy with it and had no mechanical problems at all. My other chipper is an 85hp diesel Vermeer BC1000XL which feels like a bit of a toy compared to the 12XP, and the winch on the Bandit is worth its weight in gold, total game changer for my work.
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
@kenten any way to have the down time added on to the warranty? Sounds like you’ve had serious losses in time and money while that warranty clock keeps ticking
- Location
- Elkton, VA
Serf Life, we are waiting to hear what they will do. Extending the warranty would in my mind be the bare minimum. At this point it seems they have ripped us off. They have our money but we don't have a chipper. Wouldn't you think they should be providing a loaner chipper while this one is down?
Fivepoints
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- East of Huntsville, AL
It's pretty new. Maybe 7 or 8 months old. They told him the to much idle time bs too. He isn't letting it idle hardly at all. If you want, he would be glad to talk to you about it. Dm me if you want his phone number.
- Location
- Elkton, VA
Thanks, Fivepoints. You should see a message / conversation from me.
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
One would think, what a headache
- Location
- Elkton, VA
Good to hear. At least there is hope that the problem is fixable, right? Is my relationship with Bandit / Winchester Equipment fixable, though? Remains to be seen. At this point, the chipper has been in their possession around 4 weeks twice, for a total of 8 weeks, and they still haven't got the problem resolved. Not to mention all of our own troubleshooting time, aborted rentals, and customer discounts/refunds.
VenasNursery
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Michigan
I believe you need to find a good Cat dealer
It’s a engine issue
It’s a engine issue
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