Experience or Skill?

[Keeth]

Please share your opinions on the difference between these descriptions when it comes to tree work.

I guess that’s not fair since there is a large array of facets to the industry: climbing, PHC, rigging, chainsaw use, etc. So please pick an area and let us know your take on how they overlap or differ.

I’m working on a training and this is a concept I would appreciate some help describing. Thanks in advance!

 

[Neill]

Are you asking how some people just have an innate natural ability to be skilled without a lot of experience? Or vice Versa where a person can be very experienced but never really develop advanced skills?

 

[Keeth]

Thanks for the reply!

Are you asking how … a person can be very experienced but never really develop advanced skills?

This does happen. We all see it. The yellow pages (or modern equivalent) regularly house advertisements for tree services who have “25 years experience,” but have developed little skill in that time. They learned some basics in the first few years, but are still doing business the same way 20 years later.

While natural ability and talent are factors that contribute to skill, especially with climbing, someone still needs another to show them the ropes (pun intended.)

Let’s put it this way: how do you refine your skills? What experiences go beyond experience?

 

[Muggs]

The confidence of amateurs is the envy of professionals.

 

[Neill]

I keep thinking the third aspect to this is knowledge.

 

[oldoakman]

There are those who have 1 year of experience repeated 25 times and those who truly have 25 years of continued learning experience.

I have been blessed to have had very good mentors that I have learned from and still seek out those who have knowledge to offer even after 40+ years in the industry.

 

[Daniel]

what about knowledge?

 

[evo]

There are those who have 1 year of experience repeated 25 times and those who truly have 25 years of continued learning experience.

I have been blessed to have had very good mentors that I have learned from and still seek out those who have knowledge to offer even after 40+ years in the industry.

Agreed and enjoy what you said. The person with 25 years of doing things in one way will gain and hone skill of doing the task in that one way.
However one skilled and continues to learn other ways has a broader range of experiences to pull from. Might not be as tightly honed, but the better way to get er done.

 

[Keeth]

I keep thinking the third aspect to this is knowledge.

what about knowledge?

Please elaborate.

I think knowledge comes from learning. Learning involves instruction, exposure, and research- someone giving you information and/or going after it on your own.

While experience accumulates by doing work over time, skill develops by applying knowledge to adjust what you do in a scenario. While you can learn (accumulate knowledge) that a limb or chunk being lowered by “letting it run” is much better/safer for the equipment and climber, being able to do that well is a skill that comes from practice (experience.)

What do you think?

 

[DSMc]

... What do you think?

What will you gain by separating these components? All too frequently, analytical analysis does not give applicable answers. It often breaks down components into many things that will not or can not actually be separated.

Biology is a good example. While I fully understand the potential advancement represented by in vitro-gained knowledge, it does very little without a complete holistic view and understanding that puts all the pieces back together as they are represented in actuality.

 

[Keeth]

What will you gain by separating these components?

I’m thinking compare and contrast more than separating.

 

[DSMc]

OK, but what do you gain by doing so? We have an annoyingly dogmatic quest for trying to isolate 'the one' best way or thing.

 

[Neill]

I was feeling a bit artistic this morning. This is a better representation than what I could do in words

 

[Keeth]

We have an annoyingly dogmatic quest for trying to isolate 'the one' best way or thing.

That’s a valid observation.

I’m still asking for perspectives for skill vs experience. Care to share one?

 

[Neill]

OK, but what do you gain by doing so? We have an annoyingly dogmatic quest for trying to isolate 'the one' best way or thing.

My opinion would be that for training and development, some people might benefit from this topic by introspective analysis

 

[Keeth]

View attachment 91994

That’s a great representation! I think of it more in terms of a Venn diagram.

Would you be willing to share where you observe this in an area of tree work?

 

[Neill]

I’m not sure if this is what your asking for, but on Friday I did a small dead pine removal. It wasn’t anything massive but it did involve experience, skill, and knowledge to safely execute.
The tree was about 12” dbh - dead loblolly pine approximately 55’ tall. About 2 feet of lean and a small sweep. No top, no stubs or branches, but still had bark. It was in a fenced in backyard, slightly wooded and just wide enough to potentially fell the tree. There were not adjacent trees for TIPs for a lifeline. so climbing and chunking down was not a good option. Felling was the best bet, there was a lane.
I spiked up about 25’ to set a tagline - experience told me this tree was solid enough to go that high safely. Knowledge told me that I would get sufficient leverage from the tagline to pull this against its lean and with the possibility of a degraded hinge. There was a perfect tree for a redirect so I used my knowledge to set a block for best pulling power
I knew the tree was going to be very close to the fence ( one of those black aluminum styles) on the opposite side so I decided to high stump. I used my skill to set the face cut at about 8’- from my spurs and then got down and removed all gear and obstacles.
I had two people pull and told them to continue pulling thru my back cut- there was a small chance of the hinge faili by and striking the home. I made a level and even backcut. Tree came down with some damage to understory trees but just missed the fence on the other side.

 

[DSMc]

My opinion would be that for training and development, some people might benefit from this topic by introspective analysis

That could be, but is one more important than the other? In a training class, would they not be represented as the components needed to achieve a repeatable and professional outcome?

 

[Mick Dempsey]

Honestly I can’t make sense of this thread, it’s just a pointless word jumble.

If there’s a point to be made, it needs coming from a different angle.

 

[rico]

There are those who have 1 year of experience repeated 25 times and those who truly have 25 years of continued learning experience.

And this is why "years of experience" is a bad metric for judging ones skill set and knowledge base..