Climbers for Christ

Dylan McCallum said:
Praise the Lord! Before I knew Jesus I was lonely and lived without hope. I was ready to give up. Then the Lord put me back in contact with my birth mother. She told me to believe in God because he is a good father and provides for his children. So I said I'll believe it if he can give me a wife in 30 days. 30 days later I came home from work as lonely as ever and upset I had gotten my hopes up over the world's oldest fairytale..... But then the phone rang. My mom had given a girl my phone number in Portland and told her to call me because she was going to be my wife. Sure enough she called and we talked all night long. A few days later we were engaged. Since then the King has delivered me from alcoholism, pornography, and many other sins. Most importantly he has given me hope and a purpose to use this life to do what my mother did for me. To tell others the good news that the righteous King has taken back his creation and wants each and every person to turn from thier sins and enjoy dominion over this earth with him.
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Except you don't know it was god who did any of those things? You may believe god had influence, but it could have just as easily been Krishna, Allah, Xenu, Flying Spaghetti Monster, a moldy sandwich, or none of them.

If believing helps get you through the day so be it. Go do it in your own home. Where I take major issue with religion is when they try to force themselves upon others. Annihilating entire civilizations, massacring millions, promoting slavery, dictating how others may live. That's where religion gets a massive middle finger. And to say they do it in the name of some higher being to mask their true intentions is naivety at it's best.
 
Aaron. I pray your mom can be delivered from addiction. and Dylan I appreciate your testimony.

As an aside, I would like to recommend several books , all by people I know whose testimony is true. "Called to the River God Forgot" is written by Jim Walton who was our next door neighbor during our time in Colombia.

I knew Joanne Shetler when I was in the Philippines, and have surveyed her lot here in Waxhaw. She wrote "And the Word Came With Power"

George Devoucalla was a Pilot in Colombia who has recently passed into eternity, and his newly published book is "Bush Pilot for God"

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 
Muggs said:
I'm in Montreal,
Notre Dame Basilica
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It is magnificent, but what that cost to build and be a place for a few to gather for their religious stuff could have helped a lot of people in need and have been better spent as their own teaching dictate. But, do as I say, not as I do have always been the way of religions. The Catholics will always spend millions on their own buildings, and then walk on by the homeless man out in front on the sidewalk. And their answer will always be a quote from the bible that fits their particular need at the moment. It is so filed with contradictory phrases that you can always find one that backs your need. How about they sell this building, meet at the local township hall, and build housing and feed the needy with the profits? It really is sad. But it is a magnificent building.
 
Shadowscape said:
It is magnificent, but what that cost to build and be a place for a few to gather for their religious stuff could have helped a lot of people in need and have been better spent as their own teaching dictate. But, do as I say, not as I do have always been the way of religions. The Catholics will always spend millions on their own buildings, and then walk on by the homeless man out in front on the sidewalk. And their answer will always be a quote from the bible that fits their particular need at the moment. It is so filed with contradictory phrases that you can always find one that backs your need. How about they sell this building, meet at the local township hall, and build housing and feed the needy with the profits? It really is sad. But it is a magnificent building.
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Agreed, that is some impressive and beautiful architecture. I like the this Notre Dame church in Rouen. Always found the history fascinating and kinda hilarious. Big chunk of the funding for churches in this time came from indulgence taxes where the rich would pay money to be allowed or forgiven for consuming butter. Big part of the Protestant reformation, I would probably rebel if you told me I couldn't eat butter lol.
 

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To be fair, religions are not alone in killing millions and subjecting other human beings, as the communist regimes have shown us. And whereas religious organizations have funneled countless resources into frivolous ventures, there are some that have done good. Much of the help that comes after a natural disaster are churches and parachurch organizations. This is not to say that excuses everything else, by no means. Horrible things have been done in the name of a higher power. But good things as well. Horrible things have also been done in the name of man and the state. But good things have come out of “secular institutions,” as well.
Also, there are many homeless shelters and programs that are “faith based.” In my experience, there are many homeless people who choose to live the way they do and take advantage of all the help that is available to them instead of helping themselves. That is not to say there are homeless people who really need the help. It’s hard to tell the difference.
All that to say, to me, the common denominator is humanity. We are all capable of terrible things.
 
This is the courthouse in old Montreal, stunning architecture, just beautiful. A triumphant edifice for the glorification of the state, built with money stolen from productive people at the point of a gun. Just imagine how many homeless could have been sheltered rather than building this for the wigs. Hypocrisy is not unique to the church...
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Muggs said:
This is the courthouse in old Montreal, stunning architecture, just beautiful. A triumphant edifice for the glorification of the state, built with money stolen from productive people at the point of a gun. Just imagine how many homeless could have been sheltered rather than building this for the wigs. Hypocrisy is not unique to the church...
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Totally agree it's not unique to the church. Just curious though, what was the corrupt history of this building? Or just referring to taxation? I thought the Catholic church used to have great influence and/or control of public institutions in Quebec back then.
 
Lignotuber said:
Or just referring to taxation? I thought the Catholic church used to have great influence and/or control of public institutions in Quebec back then.
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Yes, just referring to taxation.

I don't defend religious institutions. They have done a whole lot of good, and a whole lot of bad. But please be careful to not conflate people with institutions. Do not assume that the institution represents the person, and vise versa. I was brought up in what many would call Christian fundamentalism, from my mom. Dad didn't give a shit.

But standing in a beautiful cathedral fills me with awe. And to see hundreds of people there, most of them just sightseeing, not there for religious reasons at all, but to see them enter a place like that and just be hushed and reverent and very respectful, it was nice. I like architecture and I like history, so a place like that is just wonderful, whatever your beliefs and dogmas.
 
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Could our civilization have achieved such incredible technological achievements, lifted so many out of primitive ignorance and poverty and saved so many with modern medicine and ended ancient practices like foot-binding and slavery without Christianty?

I say no!
 
treegongfu said:
Could our civilization have achieved such incredible technological achievements, lifted so many out of primitive ignorance and poverty and saved so many with modern medicine and ended ancient practices like foot-binding and slavery without Christianty?

I say no!
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Where to start..
Romans
Greeks.
Japan
China.
India.
The Confederacy.
 
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All of them also engaged in slavery and none of them confered the sanctity of the individual which I suspect is of great significance.
 

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Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.
Hmmmmmm?????
 
Mick Dempsey said:
So did christianity till relatively recently, In your Christian country for example till the civil war.
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Misses the point. It wasn't the existance of the global practice of slavery it was the ending of it. I thought you would be clever enough to recognize that yourself. And thus argue from there.
 
Shadowscape said:

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Leviticus 25:44-46
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.
Hmmmmmm?????
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Pre-Christian.
 
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