Hung Pine Tree

[Dan Cobb]

I'm going to look at this tree for a friend of mine. He wants to mitigate the hazard.

I may change plans depending on what this alleged 20-24" DBH looks like in person, but this is a current thought. (1) Set a line in one of the other trees, climb and start dropping limbs. (2) Before there's a chance for movement, tie off the leaner to the main tree it's hung on with multiple wraps of an old piece of 7/16" climbing rope. Just tie off one side of the major fork that appears to be straddling the standing tree. (3) Cut everything off the spar except the fork that's keeping it in place. (4) Cut the side of the fork off that's not tied off, so spar will drop slightly and load the tie-off. (5) Cut the knot off, sacrificing a couple of feet of rope, and let the spar drop.

The base of the tree is half uprooted, but there's enough that it shouldn't want to roll. Will need to keep climbing rope well away from any possible contact and possibly have another climb line set further away should I need to come down before the spar comes down (in case it doesn't drop to the ground.) Due to the weight of the spar, I don't plan to try lowering it down. Even with double whip, not enough safety factor for my taste with the rigging I have.

To me, that seems like a safer approach than doing any cuts on the spar from the ground, which "I ain't a gonna do." And there's always to option to walk away.

Any comments?

 

[dmonn]

I've done the "cuts on the spar from the ground" on sub-10" spars enough to support your "ain't gonna do it" decision. Way too many ways for that to go wrong in a big way. Without seeing the tree in person, and not knowing what's behind the photographer, I think what you're planning sounds good.

 

[Chris Schultz]

If you can’t just cowboy this to the ground in 4-6’ chunks, I think I’d really want to be able to lock off and have the capacity to lower controllably(if there’s targets)….. if it is still “supported” even a little by the roots/earth the entire weight of the tree won’t be in your system…. L

 

[Mick Dempsey]

If there are no targets don’t get up there, that’s utter madness.

Get a winch or something and cut a bit then back off and free it remotely.

Not getting too specific cos I’m not there, but if you don’t need to climb it don’t do it.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

If you need to do an in air approach I’d highly recommend two tie in points, one to the left, one to the right, that lets you walk right up the trunk of the leaner and be suspended, and assume at any given point the tree could give way. Make sure your tails are always flaked away from the action.

I’ve done a fair bit of trees like this before, some large 30” diameter white oaks even, and one I’m thinking of in particular that we lowered… or maybe I should say slowed… with a double whip bull rope system and a secondary bull rope system. I’ve never thought of a sacrificial short hank, honestly that’s pretty brilliant.

 

[Njdelaney]

If there a root plate still attached at the base I have to think if you take enough weight off the top it may stand back up on you but can't tell from this photo. Just another thing to consider if you haven't already. Your plan seems to address this either way.

 

[rico]

i few well executed slice/salami cuts should take care of it.

 

[dmonn]

i few well executed slice/salami cuts should take care of it.

How do you execute a salami cut "well" on a trunk that size? I've always found them to be a bit unpredictable. OK for an 8" stem, but not on a stem that could squash you like a bug.

 

[Dan Cobb]

From what I can tell, appears to be securely hung with a really sturdy crotch pushing on the standing tree and this on the ground.

I'm sure what's on the ground lends some support helping to keep it upright. How much? I'm scared to guess. But I don't think it alone is nearly enough to support the spar.

I appreciate everyone's comments. I should see it in person in 4-5 days.

 

[Dan Cobb]

I’ve never thought of a sacrificial short hank, honestly that’s pretty brilliant.

Thanks. I figure it's worth shortening an old piece of rope by a couple of feet. Probably will have lots of bark friction and the knot may not even load heavily, but I'd rather keep my fingers away. Seems like a real possibility that your fingers could be sucked into things. Leaning down from above and cutting the knot off seems much safer.

 

[oldoakman]

I have an old 5/8" arborplex bull rope you could borrow and wouldn't cry over if it got destroyed.

 

[Fivepoints]

i few well executed slice/salami cuts should take care of it.

Im with Rico. You are making this way more complicated and possibly more dangerous than this needs to be. You can always notch the top and back cut it so things dont happen as fast.

 

[Dan Cobb]

I have an old 5/8" arborplex bull rope you could borrow and wouldn't cry over if it got destroyed.

A very generous offer that I'll keep in mind.

I've done salami cuts on 10-12" trees, but this one may be out of my comfort zone. Plus, the ground appears to slope downwards significantly from the base to where the crown is hung, so reach is a factor. The big 12 ft long wedge that split off the trunk at the base is another thing that makes me want to stay clear of the spar. Don't want to be next to some unpredictable barber chair action.

 

[southsoundtree]

Don't do what you're not comfortable with.

Why do you want to put a rope on it?

I'd cut it from the ground. I've cut hundreds of hung trees though. Sometimes, it's impossible not to hang-up trees in a forest setting, especially dead trees.

 

[evo]

I'd piece it out from the stump up and keep my feet on the ground with this one.

First question is if there are no targets, WHY?

If risk tolerances don't allow, then I'd just do a series of diagonal cuts.. I don't know your comfort level with this, but there are a few variations that work well. One is basically a big ass snap cut, another is similar to how to cut a bound log preventing slabbing. Reach over the top cutting the far side until the nose of the bar points down, roll the power head towards you still cutting the compression side, keeping the nose in cut down.. Read if this curf is pinching or opening.. While still cutting bore in cutting the compression wood downwards.. It's ok to leave a bit of a post (think 4x4 of uncut wood near the center of the log) as in your case you just don't want to get your saw pinched as the only consequence (other than your bag of flesh)....

Some well placed face cuts and directional back cuts can be used to steer the severed end in a desired direction. Sometimes a pre tensioned pull rope on the butt can help reenforce this.


Have at least two saws, a couple of wedges and whittle away, don't pop yourself like a grape. Your second photo of the split base adds just enough complexity that it might be kinda fun.

Add, looks doable from climbing the tree on the left with a high TIP.. Drop down on it, and take ALL the un-needed weight off, then decide if you are going to trip it from above or come down and whittle the butt. I just question why go through all that when you can just do nothing or walk it down the hill. Super worse case you can only take small chunks when walking it down, or it wont roll out and you now have to climb to work it from the tippy top down or trip it.

 

[evo]

Pro tip…. Don’t dawg in! Leave enough that you can take the power head off if you get pinched. Worse case you might loose a bar and chain, but much better than costly repairs on the power head.

 

[southsoundtree]

Stihls should allow you to remove the dogs, If it ever came to that, in order to remove your clutch cover. Idk about other brands.

I would walk out down the way Evo suggested, mostly. The remaining quarter might be cut from bottom toward top. Using a good size bar, and add little of the tip as needed allows the sawyer to stand far back, ready to step back.


As a starting point, I would face cut facing downward, back cut to a hinge, and see if it wants to drop back into the stump hole.

 

[Dan Cobb]

After seeing it today, I felt good about going with my original plan. Set a line in the tree it hung on, climbed, dropped the limbs. The crown was kinda hung in another tree, dropped most of it in one piece. Then cut the smaller side of the fork off, so the spar settled into the rope I had lashing the trees together. Cut the knot off from the away side and let her drop. Only shortened an old piece of rope by 1 foot.

I appreciate everyone's input. In the end, I went with what seemed to be safest and with the least risk for my capabilities. And the smallest chance of having to go to Plan B. No apparent damage to the standing trees other than a few broken branches from the original impact.

The ground sloped downward in the "lay direction" at about 25°, so cuts from the ground would have made for some big jumps and made the ultimate fall direction a little unpredictable. Not good, as low powerlines were about 15-20 ft off to the side.

 

[up&down]

Glad to hear everything went as planned! My friend and I discussed how we could get this spruce down which uprooted and is leaning on at least five heavily loaded trees, all very branchy. We decided it would probably take more force than any equipment we have. I’m doubtful that it would even move if we cut it off the stump. Anyone have any ideas? We are going to leave this tree as it is. There are climbable tall trees on both sides of the leaner. Is this something any climber would tackle?

 

[Dan Cobb]

Glad to hear everything went as planned! My friend and I discussed how we could get this spruce down which uprooted and is leaning on at least five heavily loaded trees, all very branchy. We decided it would probably take more force than any equipment we have. I’m doubtful that it would even move if we cut it off the stump. Anyone have any ideas? We are going to leave this tree as it is. There are climbable tall trees on both sides of the leaner. Is this something any climber would tackle?View attachment 85786

A real outside-the-box idea that requires a different skill set -
I have a few caver friends that are into micro blasting for breaking rock blocking entry into potential new caves. Though it would take a different approach since the properties of wood are vastly different than stone, I wonder if you could set a few charges somewhere along the trunk, blow it in two and get it to drop. Big plus is you can detonate from a safe distance, plus it's much easier to drill wood compared to stone. Would probably take several charges, closely spaced in a way to take advantage of the grain rather than fighting it.

I may have to get one of those friends to try blowing a tree just to see if it can be done. One friend in particular is always looking for an excuse to set off some charges. We sometimes camp on 360 mostly wooded acres. Finding a hung tree should be easy.