Liberalism ruins everything it touches.

Correct. Each state could choose for itself what laws concerning abortion should be. Some states already have so-called “trigger laws” on the books which would make abortion immediately illegal upon reversal of Roe. Others like California are already discussing amending their state constitutions to protect abortion rights. Fair enough. To each state its own. And at least even the losing side in each state can’t say they didn’t have a chance to change the law.
 
When a misscarriage occurs, when "it is still just the possiblity of a human", can you define what you believe a misscarrige is at that point, then?
An unviable embryo. And, often, heartbreaking. But, in my opinion, not the ‘death’ of a ‘person’.
 
Yo
Good debate arguments now. But I go back the the choice goes back to having sex (to say in a less shocking way then before). You have sex you take that risk, and you can't shirk it after the fact by killing an innocent life. You choose to drink and drive, you made that choice and may end up getting a ticket or killing an innocent person....it all starts from that initial choice.

I realize the drinking to sex is not the perfect analogy, but using it to show how an initial choice leads to other consequences or results you may not be ready for. It really isn't that hard to keep from getting pregnant.
U can put some lipstick on a pig, but it still squeals “she shouldn’t spread her legs”.
 
Yo

U can put some lipstick on a pig, but it still squeals “she shouldn’t spread her legs”.
Truth hurts. I knew I was being shocking/drastic with using the slang I used the first time, and I meant it to be shocking. I meant to draw attention to the fact that sex = babies. Killing an innocent human (baby) is shocking and hurtful too.

At least it had more of a point than calling someone a f tard :sisi:
 
Oh your fucktard coming out party happened the moment you utter those now infamous word. I would love to take some credit, but I was merely pointing out the obvious

Here’s to hoping your Taliban like dreams never come true buddy. I’m out.
 
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Here’s to hoping your Taliban like dreams never come true buddy. I’m out.
Yes. The Taliban is known around the world as a champion of democracy. Those guys want to vote on everything!!:rolleyes:

Without even getting into the comical legal gymnastics the majority used to arrive at their conclusion in Roe, that decision was authoritarian. Ya know, like the Taliban.

Dobbs, however you feel about the reasoning, encourages more democracy.
 
So why is heartbreaking, then, especially if a life didn't end?

If it isn't a human being (person) at conception what is it? Even if you want to call it an "unviable embryo" it still, DNA-wise, is a human.
We can be heartbroken about something that never was. A same sex couple trying different methods of getting pregnant and each time finding the methods didn’t take… that kind of heartbreak. (Two of my closest friends been working on that for years.)

What is ‘it’ though? I still believe it’s the possibility of a human. Good question
 
Yes. The Taliban is known around the world as a champion of democracy. Those guys want to vote on everything!!:rolleyes:

Without even getting into the comical legal gymnastics the majority used to arrive at their conclusion in Roe, that decision was authoritarian. Ya know, like the Taliban.

Dobbs, however you feel about the reasoning, encourages more democracy.
1.Don’t say gay

2. Banning and burning book

3. Ending a woman’s right to choose what she does with her body

4. Doing our very best to stop those pesky brown and black folks from voting.

Just a small sampling of the American Talibans “idea” book. Coming to a neighborhood near you soon!
 
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We can be heartbroken about something that never was. A same sex couple trying different methods of getting pregnant and each time finding the methods didn’t take… that kind of heartbreak. (Two of my closest friends been working on that for years.)

What is ‘it’ though? I still believe it’s the possibility of a human. Good question
Two thoughts. And they can just be things to ruminate on if you don't want to reply here, although I have enjoyed your thoughts and dialogue (especially since it has been respectful and full of substance, unlike some other things throughout this thread I've replied to, and have had replied back to me). I really actually don't like debates and flee from conflict typically, but this is something I feel so strongly about. If someone is just willing to consider some points, even if they never agree with me, then I'll take it.

1) So we can be heartbroken about wanting an embryo that was miscarried prior to 20 weeks in utero, but there isn't a reason to be heartbroken when a baby is aborted prior to 20 weeks (or at any point) because it would have been born into less-than-ideal circumstances (such as a teenager with little family/friend support who doesn't seek out resources of a pro-life pregnancy center) if it was carried to terms simply because it was wanted or not?

2) If it is "possible" human life, then what makes it possible?

I am sorry for anyone who experiences a miscarriage. I can't imagine how heartbreaking of a loss that is.
 
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At least it had more of a point than calling someone a f tard :sisi:
No. What I said was that you had the mentality of a fucktard. I don’t know you well enough to say for sure, but you sure sound like one. If and when Webster’s gets around to defining the word maybe they can use a sketch of your likeness the let folks know what one looks like? I hear that shits contagious.
 
CHTJules you have done a great job of presenting your argument and civilizing the very pro abortion faction.

To me the factors are clear: life begins at conception any point after that is part of the continuum and thus arbitrary.

How do you address the argument that carrying a baby to term reluctantly is unfair to women?
 
@rico, I occasionally wonder if you have any idea how much damage you do to your own arguments by using the language of a crass, boorish brat.

Then I stop wondering and make dinner for my kids, who have literally never heard most of the words you can’t seem to express a thought without.

Grow up. Use big boy words. Debate like an adult or expect to be treated like a child.
 
CHTJules you have done a great job of presenting your argument and civilizing the very pro abortion faction.

To me the factors are clear: life begins at conception any point after that is part of the continuum and thus arbitrary.

How do you address the argument that carrying a baby to term reluctantly is unfair to women?
Unfortunately life isn't fair. I've had some pretty unfair things done to me through no fault of my own and I've had to endure them for longer than 9 months. Someone dealing with a hard disease....I bet they are pretty reluctant about that, and for many that can be for years. A parent losing their child (outside the womb) due to a car accident caused by a drunk driver in another vehicle? Pretty darn unfair. Granted, all of the above examples are things outside of the individual's control and not a consequence of their actions/choices.

Cases of rape aside, pregnancies are the direct result of a choice to have sex. Consent to sex is a consent to pregnancy. And as with any choice, one needs to be prepared to take responsiblity and "suffer" the consequences. If someone doesn't want to reluctantly carry a baby to term, then they shouldn't have sex. Now, I realize that is pretty extreme, so they can at least hold off on having sex during their fertile window. If a woman is in tune with her body, she can tell when she is fertile (I certainly can). And, if she just can't refrain from sex during the time she is fertile, then there are multiple options for protection. If all of those things are done and she still becomes pregnant, well, because of my belief system I would say there must be a pretty good plan for that baby's life (as there is for all babies, inside and outside, the womb).
 
A parent losing their child (outside the womb) due to a car accident caused by a drunk driver in another vehicle? Pretty darn unfair.
Speaking of losing a child, aren't there several instances where pregnant women were either murdered or killed by a drunk driver and the one responsible for the woman's death is actually charged for two cases of homicide/manslaughter - one for the woman and the second for her unborn child? Why charge for the unborn child if a life wasn't lost? And how is the unborn child's life being lost due to murder/drunk driver different than an unborn child's life lost due to an abortion (which is an intentional act)?
 
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Speaking of losing a child, aren't there several instances where pregnant woman were either murdered or killed by a drunk driver and the one responsible for the woman's death is actually charged for two cases of homicide/manslaughter - one for the woman and the second for her unborn child? Why charge for the unborn child if a life wasn't lost? And how is the unborn child's life being lost due to murder/drunk driver different than an unborn child's life lost due to an abortion (which is an intentional act)?
Okay, I didn't thoroughly vet this source, but it is a ".org", so I'll go with it for now that it is fairly reputable. Just looking at the first paragraph, "...29 states have fetal homicide laws that apply to the earliest stages of pregnancy ("any state of gestation/development," "conception," "fertilization" or "post-fertilization")."

Why then, in 29 states, can an individual be charged with fetal homicide for ending a life at any state of gestation, but abortion wouldn't be considered similarly if both are intentional acts that end a pregnancy?

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx
 
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CHTJules you have done a great job of presenting your argument and civilizing the very pro abortion faction.
Thank you. Unfortunately, in a private DM to my husband, a moderator of this forum accused us of "adolescent game playing" due to my posting in this thread.
 
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