Question MRS DdRT vs. SRS SRT

evo said:
I’d love a footie, but can you tell me how it compares to the oldschool petzl ones? I’m not a fan of the latches, I rather have a kick out every once in a while than loose the ability of stepping on and off the line without using my hands.
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One more thing. The ascender that I designed has a longer body so it give the ascender more side load stability. The buckle is designed to be removed without having to pull it tighter first. The latch is designed so that it only goes away from the rope in order to be removed. The cam does have teeth for good engagement but must be removed in an upward movement from the rope or it can pick the rope. The latch can be removed and the ascender kicked off but make sure it is kicked upward, again, to avoid picking the rope.
 
SRS gives you the ability to use cinching anchors with out the need for extra gear.

Say I’m blocking down a spar and there’s no limbs where I need to make a cut, to make things worse it’s pretty leany and getting a nice face into it isn’t going to much fun fighting the lean. I need a second tie in, it needs to be cinching, and I need to be able to descend straight to the ground in case something goes wrong. MRS, I would need extra gear, some sort of adjustable friction saver. But that has limitations because it may not be large enough and it’s probably not going to help me get stable on the leany spar.

SRS this becomes an easier and quicker problem to solve. I pull out some slack from my hitch climber, I throw the anchor end around the spar and I tie off a suitable running knot, I take the spare carabiner off my hitch climber and put a munter below the hitch climber. I can work off it, I can lean against the bight on the anchor end and get comfortable on the side of the lean, and I can descend if needed. Some variations on this make it just as easy to retrieve.
 
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Noodle said:
SRS gives you the ability to using cinching anchors with out the need for extra gear.

Say I’m blocking down a leany spar and there’s no limbs where I need to make a cut, to make things worse it’s pretty leany and getting a nice face into isn’t going to much fun fighting the lean. I need a second tie in, it needs to be cinching, and I need to be able to descend straight to the ground in case something goes wrong. MRS, I would need extra gear, some sort of adjustable friction saver. But that has limitations because it may not be large enough and it’s probably not going to help me get stable on the leany spar.

SRS this becomes an easier and quicker problem to solve. I pull out some slack from my hitch climber, I throw the anchor end around the spar and I tie off a suitable running knot, I take the spare carabiner off my hitch climber and put a munter below the hitch climber. I can work off it, I can lean against the bight on the anchor end and get comfortable on the side of the lean, and I can descend if needed. Some variations on this make it just as easy to retrieve.
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Thank you, I completely forgot about that one. Yes, I can anchor literally anywhere with SRS and no added slings or hardware. The anchor is easy to relocate or advance, may be vertical or horizontal, in a branch union or otherwise, may be constructed to share loads, provides additional security etc.
Thank you.
 
When the branches are of a suitable size, the Hook simplifies advancing in the tree, not having to bring the rope end back.
 
You can immediately tell if you can reach the ground with srt if the tail is touching. Per noodle’s point, you can descend off a spar without more gear vs needing an adj frict savr etc with ddrt.
 
Good point about not guaranteed knowing you can make it to the dDirt using DRT just by looking at your line. SRT for the simplified safety check win.

Has anyone cited SRT multiple tips redundancy vs DRT training to isolate your tip? (basal not canopy tie) This is two for one, increased safety via redundancy and increased scope of access into the spindlies by distributing your load just like rigging.

How about the 4x softer fall catch SRT vs DRT? (2x because 1 line not two parallel, 2x because those lines are also in series SRT) Not to mention branch shock load absorption in a multi redundant tip configuration.
 
Richard, et.al.,

Keep the conversations coming. Some of us enjoy your analysis and opinions based on your experience - either in the field and/or in the lab.

It's a good place to stretch out. People are reading and sharing and learning.

Cheers.
 
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Redirects in MRS are dynamic (ie the rope has to move between the primary anchor and the redirect) where SRS can be either static or dynamic at the redirect allowing for different load paths and load sharing between anchors (compression down the stem, vs bending, vs shared bending).

Natural crotch bark damage is greatly reduced with SRS especially if using canopy anchors and static redirects
 
Bart_ said:
In a more earnest answer, the earlier post about tip forces bark roughness tightens of crotch becomes an equalizer, not distinct to either system - in DRT it grinds your rope, impedes your ascent and determines how much load your hitch sees, in SRT it determines the basal rope leg loading - exact same math/physics.
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Maybe splitting pine needles but food for thought at any rate. The whole point in these thought exercises is so we fully understand how things work, Understanding how things work makes them safer.
IMO, almost "exactly the same". I think one must consider "break-away force" and its impact on the system. Your point of the differentiation of forces is an important one. Here is an example of what makes them distinct. SRT line forces may not fully be experienced until after the "break-away force", climber has not done a proper load test, starts up the rope and at some point, hopefully before much elevation is attained, the break-away force is exceeded and thus the load on the limb or support point is increased. Watch anyone try to pull a reluctant rope from the tree, once break-away force is surpassed it becomes easier. As you point out, that force differentiation has little impact on a moving rope, once it is moving.
 
Just came in on the 'tail' end of this today and have not read them all as yet. Did anyone mention rope retrieval? Really easy with MRS, just unhook and pull it back to you over the limb. No extra pull-down to rig or fore thought involved. The other difference to me, although I am sure this certainly has been mentioned by now, is that there is a HUGE difference between the two general systems in how bouncy or static a rope is, especially on longer ascents.
 
One difference among many is the the amount of rope in system on DRT can means your actions are halved. Bump the chain on a DRT zigzag and you move half the distance as say “elbowing” the bird on rope runner pro while handsaw pruning.
To be fair I’ve really been a fan of long lanyard with akimbo as adjuster. A great mix of both systems and I can hitch cord and shizl lanyard and use akimbo on tail srt or DRT.
Srt up with zigzag/chicane or hitch climber and adjustable friction saver DRT is my usual. Fairly quick to tie off spliced eye “canobase” and throw on chicane and srt different part of tree when moving rope redirect would be a pain. DRT is a bit more flexible whereas once on srt it’s a bit stuck srt unless you secret weapon an added system on. Having started on wire core becket bend lanyard and a Blake’s. Moving rope is familiar and I’m comfortable with. Srt is a fantastic direction for the industry and I do use it.
When I got a splice eye rope, hitch climber and spliced eye/eye prussic cord it was like heaven. Still remember that day. Mind blown. Same with the wrench. I still bust out the zk1 front tooth remover on occasion.
 
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