Coming: No new gas saws in CA

[Dan Cobb]

California took another step toward its goal of ridding the state of all gas-powered engines thanks to a new bill signed by Gov. Gavin Newsom on Saturday.

The new law will ban the sale of all off-road, gas-powered engines, including generators, lawn equipment, pressure washers, chainsaws, weed trimmers, and even golf carts.

The new rule will be implemented by January 2024, or as soon as regulators determine is "feasible," whichever date is later.

Maybe this will boost the availability of gas saws in the rest of the country.

 

[Njdelaney]

I'm guessing it has as much to do with fire prevention as it does with curbing greenhouse gas emissions.

 

[Birdyman88]

I'm guessing it has as much to do with fire prevention as it does with curbing greenhouse gas emissions.

As long as Samsung doesn't make the batteries.

 

[Birdyman88]

But seriously, this could be the impetus for the manufacturers to force us over to battery saws by limiting gas saw production. Probably wouldn't hurt to go ahead and think about getting and battery powered setup for climbing.

 

[treegongfu]

I wonder what effect this will have on the climate.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

A battery powered generator makes me think along the lines of perpetual motion.

I don't know how to compare engine displacement to battery power. What is the biggest battery saw now? Not measured in battery power, more along the lines of a head to head comparison or bar length.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Once Tesla or whoever puts out saws equivalent to the largest ccs required for tree work, for the same price, I could get into this. But that will not happen in our lifetime.

I was thrilled to see people talking about electrifying cars, trucks, and the like, but I have stopped holding my breath for the products to be there at all, let alone at an affordable price.

This legislation just seems like it will make a lot of things impossible for a lot of people, and have a tiny impact on global emissions.

Unless there were exceptions for licensed professionals?

 

[ATH]

I'm guessing it has as much to do with fire prevention as it does with curbing greenhouse gas emissions.

How do they fight forest fires with battery powered chainsaws? Is there a battery chainsaw that can cut down a 40 in diameter tree to make a fire line? could it cut down dozens a day? That reality alone is a prescription for making fires worse...

 

[ATH]

I wonder what effect this will have on the climate.

none....

But I wonder what impact that will have on electricity availability in a state that already struggles with that?

Are recreational vehicles like ATVs and recreational watercraft included in that ban? I haven't read the bill, but none of the news articles I have read include those. Instead they're taking valuable tools out of the hands of working people while others get to continue to play with their toys.

 

[ATH]

.

Maybe this will boost the availability of gas saws in the rest of the country.

Initially I expect it will... But it will probably also make battery powered saws pretty tough to come by. The Husqvarna top handle battery saw is on my wish list.

Hopefully it will spur innovation... But it is not like people didn't want to create battery-powered saws last week and now suddenly they do.

 

[Birdyman88]

Here's some numbers to think about - these are just roughed out numbers

1 hp = .745 kW
1 saw tank (guessing) = .5 hour continuous run time
1 saw tank = .3725 kW-hr per rated hp

Li-Ion batteries generally are .175 KW-hr per kg of battery weight (not including all the plastic and stuff)

So for a 6 hp saw that runs for 30 minutes continuously on a tank, that would be 2.235 kW-hr. That would require a Li-ion battery that is roughly 12.8 kg, or 28.0 lb (before adding plastic for housing and stuff).

The Tesla model S has a 85 kW-hr battery that can go 300 miles, and weighs 1200 lb

Like I said, these are rough numbers, but it gets you in the ballpark.

 

[evo]

this will very likely be only for the general public. the technology isn't there, for large battery saws, there will be a professional exemption.

 

[Reach]

Here's some numbers to think about - these are just roughed out numbers

1 hp = .745 kW
1 saw tank (guessing) = .5 hour continuous run time
1 saw tank = .3725 kW-hr per rated hp

Li-Ion batteries generally are .175 KW-hr per kg of battery weight (not including all the plastic and stuff)

So for a 6 hp saw that runs for 30 minutes continuously on a tank, that would be 2.235 kW-hr. That would require a Li-ion battery that is roughly 12.8 kg, or 28.0 lb (before adding plastic for housing and stuff).

The Tesla model S has a 85 kW-hr battery that can go 300 miles, and weighs 1200 lb

Like I said, these are rough numbers, but it gets you in the ballpark.

Those numbers are probably reasonable, based on the Milwaukee cordless concrete saw; I’ve picked it up, but have not run it - it’s heavy, far heavier than its gasoline driven counterpart.

The other problem with batteries that size is cost, in today’s numbers, to run a tree crew with those batteries you would spend more to stock the truck with batteries than you would spend on the truck!

 

[Njdelaney]

And there will probably be loopholes around the exemption like there always is. This probably won't be that big of a deal when it is all said and done.

 

[southsoundtree]

How do they fight forest fires with battery powered chainsaws? Is there a battery chainsaw that can cut down a 40 in diameter tree to make a fire line? could it cut down dozens a day? That reality alone is a prescription for making fires worse...

I expect there will be exemptions.

 

[ATH]

I expect there will be exemptions.

That would be the reasonable thing to do.
I'm glad I don't need to count on that.

 

[ATH]

And there will probably be loopholes around the exemption like there always is. This probably won't be that big of a deal when it is all said and done.

Somewhere I saw something about "new" equipment as in used equipment will still be able to be sold. I see a boon for saw shops in NV selling new saws to individuals who then sell them as used (with a mark up) in CA.

Also, everything I'm seeing says gas engines. Is that just reporters not knowing the difference or are diesel engines excluded? Of they are included, does that include chippers, bulldozers and backhoes? If diesel engines are exempted, do we see innovation of diesel small engines???

 

[treegongfu]

I assume it is about political posturing and appeasing a group who are dedicated to this as a global warming issue. I doubt exempting diesels would be palatable.

 

[Neill]

I wonder what effect this will have on the climate.

a drop in the bucket- a joke- or another small step in the right direction?
I’m not initially a proponent of this legislation on the face of it. However, I would like to add that two cycle engines emit considerably more greenhouses gases per gallon burned than an average modern car-because they lack catalytic converters. A quick google check and I read lawn equipment is responsible for 5% of U.S. emissions. I’ll admit I did not fact check that figure.
My opinion on battery technology… “ zero emissions” for battery technology is misleading. Fossil fuels are used to create the energy that supplies the power grid that recharges those batteries. It’s not some magic free energy. Granted, it may be burned more efficiently or cleaner- like in natural gas, but still it has associated pollutants and costs. I’m sure it’s the way of the future but I’m skeptical it’s all done in the name of climate conservation and not capitalism. Buy new stuff that’s better than the old, etc.

 

[islandarb]

All I ever add is battery disposal. They destroy so many third world country's water resources by the disposal methods. Technology is a falsehood.