We sure aren’t going to hire someone with only one year of climbing experience as a contractor for $500 per day! $350 maybe, but that’s a stretch even for a minimally experienced climber with proper insurance, and all his own tools, and clear proof of skill.
At $350/day, a climber with any skill would cost us that much to employ, after we pay wages, insurance, and taxes. An employee costs roughly 2.5x his daily wages to employ, so $350 per day is what it costs us to pay someone $17.50/hour for an 8 hour day.
Many self employed persons think they’re making big money at those rates, but in reality if you do the math, long term they’re actually losing money by working for themselves if they’re working legally, paying taxes and proper insurance, buying and maintaining a truck and tools.
This is correct. Most people don't have a proper understanding of the money that they are actually making or spending.
I offered a contract guy 75k for 1500 hours with solid 401k match + benefits. Whatever gear he wanted paid for. I figured that would run me a probably 105-110k after tax, comp, benefits etc. He is the real deal though. Lots of experience and no messing around. Worth more than that probably.
He quite quickly declined, saying he is hoping to make 100k contracting on his own. I explained to him that 1500 hours leaves him plenty of time to do side work with his own gear, and still meet that 100k while having comp and benefits paid for etc etc.
Instead we decided I would lock him in every Monday-Tuesday at $500/day for the year. Between rain days, Monday holidays and his vacations, he will probably only work 80 days - 40k (plus workers comp) call it 10,000 as a high number = $50,000.
It works way way better for me in this situation. He is self employed and represents himself. Has his own nice tools that he takes care of and respects. Has his own reputation at stake, and knows that if he starts to suck and I get rid of him, he won't have the reliable two days a week (he could, I'm sure, go out and fill those days up, but it's nice to have steady work and a lot of the time it's not very difficult what I have him doing....)
If I were paying him as my employee, after a month he'd be thinking he was worth more, would want more time off, then complain he's not getting enough hours if there were some rain days. Be buying him lots of gear. Wouldn't want to do this or that..... He'd be around all the time and we'd start to get sick of each other and he'd be thinking he should have stuck it out as a contract climber.
Two days a week we are excited to see each other. Crew is high energy. Almost honeymoon stage.
I found another contract guy same rate 500/day two days a week comes in Wednesday and Thursday. I like it that way. Plus if you give them heads up, they can find something else to do and don't have to feel bad about leaving them at home like you would an employee.
Downside.... They can't lead a crew. I don't have them drive any trucks, and they don't know what they are doing until they get there. Plus, they technically aren't there to tell other people what to do, they are there to climb. So you need some degree of crew leader. In my situation, it's typically me. Which works well, because if there is an annoying climb or dead tree that someone would complain about, miserable poison ivy tree, I'll go in and do the dirty work..... You could have a crew leader that didn't climb at all, no problem. But still would need to direct people + have personnel to get equipment to jobs.
I'd rather hire an equipment operator as a crew leader who knows the business for 35-40/hr+ to direct the ground personnel and sub climbers that can be trusted to see the job through. The climbers think they are making a million and are happy to work hard a day or two a week. Just need someone to direct them and the support guys to make the projects efficient.
Honestly, in the equipment operator running the crew situation, tell him you'll start him at 35, with option for 40 after a month if he works out. Tell him if it works out after a year, give him a good salary. No one who is worth it wants to work for cheap, but if you start a stranger out at 100k, they might not be worth it, or start out great and end up in the shit house a month in..... Hard to find people that's the truth.
