dsptech
Branched out member
- Location
- North East
It appears I don't need to tie my base anchor...
- Thread starter Winchman
- Start date
Winchman
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Southwest Georgia
Bango Skank got it right. Thank you.
The loop of Sterling RIT cord between the bottom of the ZZ and the carabiner on my harness lets me get an eighteen inch stroke with my hands when I'm climbing, but I can still reach the release on the ZZ to descend. It's comfortable, reasonably efficient, and seems to work well.
Between the lower pulley of the 3-1 and the ZZ is a very short loop of Sterling hitch cord with a thimble at each end. I needed something longer than a carabiner to keep the pulley clear of the ZZ release.
In the picture, there's also a piece of hitch cord from the pulley through the ZZ body to the carabiner on my harness. I put it there the last time I adjusted the arrangement just in case something slipped. The knots have tightened nicely, so I probably don't need it now.
I like having the big Stable Braid wrapped around the tree. It's virtually indestructible, and apparently generates lots of friction. The Voyager seems too slippery to do well as a base anchor. Some of the trees I climb are more than three feet in diameter, so it takes a long piece.
The little nylon rope is NOT a part of the life support system. I keep the red ribbon on the climbing rig until I do a final check of my setup.
I've got another high climb planned for later this morning. The tree's a leaner, and it's a long way to the lowest limb.
The loop of Sterling RIT cord between the bottom of the ZZ and the carabiner on my harness lets me get an eighteen inch stroke with my hands when I'm climbing, but I can still reach the release on the ZZ to descend. It's comfortable, reasonably efficient, and seems to work well.
Between the lower pulley of the 3-1 and the ZZ is a very short loop of Sterling hitch cord with a thimble at each end. I needed something longer than a carabiner to keep the pulley clear of the ZZ release.
In the picture, there's also a piece of hitch cord from the pulley through the ZZ body to the carabiner on my harness. I put it there the last time I adjusted the arrangement just in case something slipped. The knots have tightened nicely, so I probably don't need it now.
I like having the big Stable Braid wrapped around the tree. It's virtually indestructible, and apparently generates lots of friction. The Voyager seems too slippery to do well as a base anchor. Some of the trees I climb are more than three feet in diameter, so it takes a long piece.
The little nylon rope is NOT a part of the life support system. I keep the red ribbon on the climbing rig until I do a final check of my setup.
I've got another high climb planned for later this morning. The tree's a leaner, and it's a long way to the lowest limb.
Burrapeg
Been here a while
- Location
- Puget Sound
Thanks, dsptech. It is on sale so I might spring for a length of it.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
I've always wanted to try Vortex and Imori... but moved away from 1/2" ropes when I got rid of the HH1 and started using ZZs for DdRT. The RW just doesn't like any of the ones I have tried.
Oh, and the Akimbo works great with the Voyager. I did manage to get that tried today, although I came back into the house a sopping, wet mess.
I really would like an SRT device that worked well on the 1/2" ropes. I need to try the ZZ/Chicane combo on some of them. The ZZ usually handles the big ropes adequately, with only slack tending being diminished. It's still usually better than any RW/hitch setups I've tried, so that might be my only option, right now. Midline attachability is a no go with that setup, but I can probably live with it. I have read that the RopeRunner handles 1/2" ropes, so there's an option... but an expensive one.
Too much bling, too many nice ropes... I should just have a garage sale and take up collecting butterflies, or something.
Oh, and the Akimbo works great with the Voyager. I did manage to get that tried today, although I came back into the house a sopping, wet mess.
I really would like an SRT device that worked well on the 1/2" ropes. I need to try the ZZ/Chicane combo on some of them. The ZZ usually handles the big ropes adequately, with only slack tending being diminished. It's still usually better than any RW/hitch setups I've tried, so that might be my only option, right now. Midline attachability is a no go with that setup, but I can probably live with it. I have read that the RopeRunner handles 1/2" ropes, so there's an option... but an expensive one.
Too much bling, too many nice ropes... I should just have a garage sale and take up collecting butterflies, or something.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
If you wrap twice and cross it in the back the Voyager won't slip on anything. When I'm base/basal anchoring on small diameter smooth barked trees I put one or two half hitches above a backed Running Bowline, doesn't budge loaded or slacked.
Which reminds me.... with your Stable Braid anchor, what I don't like is that if you slack the line when you're up high (say advancing your anchor) and can't really see the base anchor that well, the Stable Braid (where you have the Voyager/thimble attached) will flop down quite a bit. Nothing may happen but then again the thimble could get in a weird position when you reload the system.
As far as base anchors go, it needs to be stable positionally, you shouldnt have to monitor it during the climb. For the conifer in the photo (looks like ponderosa pine but probably loblolly?) just a simple backed Runing Bowline no additional wraps will be fine with the Voyager. Wrapping and crossing in the back just makes it even more stable when it's unloaded/loaded.
-AJ
Winchman
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Southwest Georgia
I enjoyed a nice 60' climb in this morning, and I made a change to my climbing rig after I got down.
Pic 1 is the tree.
Pic 2 is the upper pulley arrangement.
Pic 3 is the lower pulley connected to the ZZ with a Petzl Oxan carabiner with a load on the loop that goes to the harness. Looks like there is just enough clearance between the pulley and the ZZ release. BUT...
Pic 4 shows what happens when I pull down on the rope to go up. The ZZ rotates so the ropes rub together a little. I think it will probably be OK with all my weight in the harness, so I'll give it a try on the next climb.
Pic 5 shows the shoe covers I made from the sleeves of an old sweatshirt to keep sawdust from getting on my socks and in my shoes.
Thanks for the heads up about slacking the anchor line, AJ. I'll keep that in mind. What I may do is move the red rope higher so it holds the anchor line against the tree above the knot. That'll keep it in position while I'm working on the base anchor, too.
The tree is a loblolly, but we also have lots of longleaf pines here.
Pic 1 is the tree.
Pic 2 is the upper pulley arrangement.
Pic 3 is the lower pulley connected to the ZZ with a Petzl Oxan carabiner with a load on the loop that goes to the harness. Looks like there is just enough clearance between the pulley and the ZZ release. BUT...
Pic 4 shows what happens when I pull down on the rope to go up. The ZZ rotates so the ropes rub together a little. I think it will probably be OK with all my weight in the harness, so I'll give it a try on the next climb.
Pic 5 shows the shoe covers I made from the sleeves of an old sweatshirt to keep sawdust from getting on my socks and in my shoes.
Thanks for the heads up about slacking the anchor line, AJ. I'll keep that in mind. What I may do is move the red rope higher so it holds the anchor line against the tree above the knot. That'll keep it in position while I'm working on the base anchor, too.
The tree is a loblolly, but we also have lots of longleaf pines here.
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southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
K.I.S.S.
I skimmed.
Have you noticed the Articles section, separate from the Forum, on the homepage?
Straight forward info without the confusion of Gu and Goats! haha.
Glad you're here, Winchman, its inspirational to see someone of your age venturing into new, and daring pursuits. Too many kids, teens, 20 somethings, 30...40...50...60 somethings who sit on their asses all day. By the time a person is in their 70's, ya sure, take a break, if you need to, but life is for living.
That loose thimble will possibly abraid your rope more than preserve it, in my opinion.
A simple, one-rope base-tie is the least likely to get overcomplicated, and in the even you need to be lowered in an emergency, the most accessible for a sensible person.
It won't pass the whistle-stop test, or whatever they call it when someone blows a whistle, and ever rescuer let's go. I don't care, personally, as being lowered out of a tree out of necessity is right up there with fighting a running chainsaw with my body, and the express descent with instant stop. Judgment is not shiny, anodized and rainbow-colored, and can't be sold by arborist suppliers, unfortunately.
A good rule to stay in a tree by...
Always test a new life-support system with 100% body-weight (existing, tested climbing/ lanyard system is slack), and Look, Listen, Feel all your connections being made, and triple check before detaching your old system from your saddle.
"Parking" your lanyard's termination (end) carabiner on your saddle when climbing and moreso descending is a great way to keep your teeth.
I only ever connect any part of my life-support systems to life-support points on my harness, for storage. I'll 'park' my lanyard biner on the same side as the lanyard positioner, either connected to my d-ring/ bridge-ring, or to the positioner's carabiner.
For whatever it's worth...
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
An synthetic boot sock, with the toe-area removed and slightly melted to prevent fraying might make a nice elastic gaiter than covers the top of your sock, and to your ankle, without a slippery layer underfoot.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
I guess the point is when people talk about KISS when configuring gear, look at your systems overall, are there things that don't need to be there? If all you need to do is securely tie off a base anchor is there a clean and simple way to do it with the minimum moving parts? The answer is yes!
Great to see you climbing, keep us posted.
-AJ
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
I thought they were foot warmers at first!
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Weird that there are longleaf pines. What's next? short-needle maples?
Sometimes going forward is not. The HH is, or at least can be, outstanding at SRT with 1/2" lines.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Example of super simple base anchor from.... oh damn, 2008, I'm super old. Wrapped and crossed around the back, captured/cinched with a delta screwlink. Rope weight keeps it from flopping down when slacked but even so very resilient stability-wise, if it does flop down, it goes back to normal when reloaded.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
Is that an old Butterfly harness?
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Here's a simple low-cost equivalent to what you're currently climbing on. This is out of the Peter Jenkins/Tim Kovar rec climbing tradition, they call it the "Super System", a 3:1 MRS to help first-time rec climbers who have too much have trouble climbing a 2:1 MRS. The "split tail" in this configuration sets the pulley further away from the climber so it doesn't get in the way. Now I'd just use a double fisherman's noose knot on the carabiner on the micropulley instead of the backed F8.
Don't worry about "climb stroke" distance with your split tail from the carabiner to the hitch, you can climb continually on this system until you want to rest, no need to sit back after every pull cycle. One hand pulling above the hitch, one hand pulling below, the lower hand pushes the hitch up as you move up, "stroke length" becomes irrelevant.
2007! Don't remind me.
-AJ
Don't worry about "climb stroke" distance with your split tail from the carabiner to the hitch, you can climb continually on this system until you want to rest, no need to sit back after every pull cycle. One hand pulling above the hitch, one hand pulling below, the lower hand pushes the hitch up as you move up, "stroke length" becomes irrelevant.
2007! Don't remind me.
-AJ
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moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Indeed! My first floating bridge harness, lent to my friend who I first met in the woods, he was climbing on a rock harness. He dug the Butterfly and eventually it was his. Nick Araya spliced a wicked cool bridge for me on that harness, out of of some rigging line, can't remember what the cordage was. I just saw a brand new Butterfly harness at Shelter Tree, North Attleboro, Mass., looked like the same design and colors, damn talk about nostalgia, I wanted to buy one on the spot. It would be like buying a '64 Ford Falcon convertible on impulse.
-AJ
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Com'on people, no one cares what that line is installed on the fine old forest-grown white pine? My first static line, 200' Bluewater II 10.5mm nylon core/polyester cover. It was perfectly excellent until I climbed on Sterling HTP 10mm after which the Bluewater II spent more time in storage. Ok, back to the present, the past is past ;-)
-AJ
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
I have two. One, I just bought for parts, and is a size small. Won't fit me, but I decided to fix it up and give it away to somebody small or who has an older kid that climbs. One of these days I'll finish it up... I just piddle with it when I get the urge.
I always thought that harness was ahead of its time. I think Nick flew one of those himself, for a long time, if I remember right (I seldom do).
Winchman
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Southwest Georgia
AJ, it looks like I could substitute the ZZ for the Blake's hitch in the picture. The weight of the line below the ZZ would be enough to pull it through the ZZ once I got up a ways. Until then, I'd have to hold my position with one hand while pulling the line through the ZZ with the other hand. I'll have to see if I can hold my position with one hand on the rope.
The ZZ gives up an inch or so as it tightens on the rope, so I think fewer and longer strokes is a little more efficient. The hitch may be better in that regard. It's been a while since I climbed with a hitch.
Here's the tree I'm planning to climb tomorrow after setting a nice TIP at the blue marks earlier today. I'm going after that dead limb on the left and some shorter pieces along the way. I'll have a Mallion screw link on hand to install above the new carabiner in my climbing rig to turn the pulley away from the rope, if necessary. Should be an interesting climb.
The ZZ gives up an inch or so as it tightens on the rope, so I think fewer and longer strokes is a little more efficient. The hitch may be better in that regard. It's been a while since I climbed with a hitch.
Here's the tree I'm planning to climb tomorrow after setting a nice TIP at the blue marks earlier today. I'm going after that dead limb on the left and some shorter pieces along the way. I'll have a Mallion screw link on hand to install above the new carabiner in my climbing rig to turn the pulley away from the rope, if necessary. Should be an interesting climb.
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Jeez Moss, had your testicles even dropped yet? You dont look old enough to pee hard there buddy.Example of super simple base anchor from.... oh damn, 2008, I'm super old. Wrapped and crossed around the back, captured/cinched with a delta screwlink. Rope weight keeps it from flopping down when slacked but even so very resilient stability-wise, if it does flop down, it goes back to normal when reloaded.
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