Spiral pruning?

climbingmonkey24

climbingmonkey24

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
United States
Just watched a video online where a climber spiral prunes some large firs.

I’ve never heard of spiral pruning before. I searched back in some old threads and found a few but I was curious what your guys opinion is of it.
 
GregManning said:
Spiral pruning is one of several techniques used on fruit trees (e.g. apple).
Never heard of use on fir, etc.
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It’s a very common thing in the PNW ... people think spiral pruning larger conifers makes them better able to handle wind loads

Based on the research I’ve seen, it’s been totally disproven. It messes with the internal dampening that the tree has built in, where individual branches hit other branches and dissipate loads
 
CanadianStan said:
It’s a very common thing in the PNW ... people think spiral pruning larger conifers makes them better able to handle wind loads

Based on the research I’ve seen, it’s been totally disproven. It messes with the internal dampening that the tree has built in, where individual branches hit other branches and dissipate loads
Click to expand...

Also (typing on a phone, not inclined to type essays) if you think of the tree as one large polygon, it’s surface area is equivalent to the outside 2D area of the shape. Once you start thinning it out and opening up gaps in the canopy, you suddenly add lots of internal surface area where the wind wasn’t penetrating before; previously the wind would blow around the tree, whereas now it blows through the canopy and hits all the branches from bizarre angles, increasing the force of the wind on the same structure
 
CanadianStan said:
It’s a very common thing in the PNW ... people think spiral pruning larger conifers makes them better able to handle wind loads

Based on the research I’ve seen, it’s been totally disproven. It messes with the internal dampening that the tree has built in, where individual branches hit other branches and dissipate loads
Click to expand...
Curious if the same studies showed another technique to be more effective? Love this stuff!
 
That's as I understand it and have been told @rope-a-dope (I would rather do a delicate crown reduction than removal anyways), just haven't seen empirical data comparing different techniques to reduce wind-load. Went to school for forestry, which is rarely focused on a singular tree, so my background in the data side of arborculture has significant deficits. Fewer resources to pull from and fewer decades of solid studies.
 
I found that as soon as I replied above! Of course it would be buckin... it is old school technique when tree climbers in skinny conifers couldn't leave the trunk cuz they are stuck on spikes and lanyard. All you can do to reduce risk of high load failure is wack some fraction of limbs off so there is less tree to blow over.
I like buckin when he is felling, not climbing. Too bad his kid is learning stuff that probably will need to be unlearned. True tho: spiking trees to prune is not as much about the damage as it is an old and ineffective practice.
 
rope-a-dope said:
I found that as soon as I replied above! Of course it would be buckin... it is old school technique when tree climbers in skinny conifers couldn't leave the trunk cuz they are stuck on spikes and lanyard. All you can do to reduce risk of high load failure is wack some fraction of limbs off so there is less tree to blow over.
I like buckin when he is felling, not climbing. Too bad his kid is learning stuff that probably will need to be unlearned. True tho: spiking trees to prune is not as much about the damage as it is an old and ineffective practice.
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I know it is common knowledge that you should avoid spikes when pruning but wouldn’t you say some situations warrant it?

On some of these tall pines, firs, etc. there’s no good branches to get a good tie in.

I mean on some where the branches start at the ground you could just climb up using the branches to manually set your tie in but on ones where the branches are mainly at the top or it’s covered with dead stuff...

I know I’ve had to use spikes in situations like this before.

Not all trees. If you can get a good tie in from the ground then go for it, but in some situations I think it might be more risky especially if there are no solid branches.
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
I know it is common knowledge that you should avoid spikes when pruning but wouldn’t you say some situations warrant it?

On some of these tall pines, firs, etc. there’s no good branches to get a good tie in.

I mean on some where the branches start at the ground you could just climb up using the branches to manually set your tie in but on ones where the branches are mainly at the top or it’s covered with dead stuff...

I know I’ve had to use spikes in situations like this before.

Not all trees. If you can get a good tie in from the ground then go for it, but in some situations I think it might be more risky especially if there are no solid branches.
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I don’t know man,with the equipment we have available today i can’t imagine it would be necessary to spike a tree on a pruning job.If you cant get tie in you really like tie in twice with with two ropes,stay lanyarded in on ascent,advance TIP as you work up tree,there are so many option today.
 
When you cut limbs (solar collectors) out of a crown, does the the tree do nothing in response?

If you strip out the interior of the crown, does the tree do nothing in response?

Does the tree grow more foliage on the remaining ends of the limbs?

Do the remaining limbs grow larger and heavier in, let's say doug-fir with limbs that blow off when too end-heavy or over-long?

Is the climber really good are reading the mind of the tree to know which limbs are the problematic ones, having defects, rather than leaving defectively limbs more exposed?

Doug-fir commonly get neutral-plane fractures in over-extended limbs. They can remain growing at times. Expose them to more wind, and lion-tail them, hmmm.


Scott Baker (can't @ scott... atm, recent recipient of some sort of ISA Lifetime Achievement Award), said that in the 70's and/ or 80's they welded to the bars so the bars were wider than chains, allowing them to 'skin out; the firs, from spurs. Also, slaps his head about topping maples down here in Olympia, because at the time, it was the thing.



Does anyone know of any research that suggests wind-lacing is good?


So is there spur-climbing, wind-thinning in a video titled (disparagingly??) No, I won't top your trees?
 
I’m not defending what he’s doing I just was wondering if anybody ever heard of it before because I never have.


I don’t think using spurs on pruning jobs is a good idea either unless you have no choice. Some of these tall pines and firs or hemlocks with brittle branches all the way up, if there’s no access for equipment and no suitable safe tie in or surrounding trees then it becomes a matter of ascending the tree safely.
 
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