Daily rate freelance

[treebilly]

I don’t freelance. I do “side work” though. By “sidework” I mean fully insured and a legal company. I work full time for a boss and put in another 40 on “side work” for myself. One of the two is going bye-bye soon. I’m getting to damn old to pull these hours. Worst part is missing out on life. My point is if you can’t make enough at “work”, change jobs. If you freelance, make it your job. My working so many hours was in response to poor life decisions at a younger age that had taken me 15 years to pay for. Now I’m deciding which path to go down for the last half of my career. Working full time and freelancing is a quick way to forced retirement as far as I can tell. At 40 I hurt way to bad to continue up this road. My debts are paid and I’m looking forward to enjoying life now.

 

[Flex Abednego]

My company is a LLC. I file as a S corp. You can be a sole member LLC filing as a sole proprietor. Filing as a S corp I pay myself a salary like an employee. So I pay 1/2 the FICA and my company pays the other half. A sole proprietor takes draws. Its about how you pay yourself and how taxes get paid. My company pays quarterly taxes also. Its all still my money, my CPA said its an advantage this way. The more money you make the more critical these details become. As far as being structured as a LLC that provides liability protection. If something happens with my business my personal assets are safe. There are rules about how the money is handled and separated, the LLC is a separate entity. I recommend talking to good CPA.

Thanks!

 

[CanaryBoss]

I don’t freelance. I do “side work” though. By “sidework” I mean fully insured and a legal company. I work full time for a boss and put in another 40 on “side work” for myself. One of the two is going bye-bye soon. I’m getting to damn old to pull these hours. Worst part is missing out on life. My point is if you can’t make enough at “work”, change jobs. If you freelance, make it your job. My working so many hours was in response to poor life decisions at a younger age that had taken me 15 years to pay for. Now I’m deciding which path to go down for the last half of my career. Working full time and freelancing is a quick way to forced retirement as far as I can tell. At 40 I hurt way to bad to continue up this road. My debts are paid and I’m looking forward to enjoying life now.

That’s exactly why we don’t allow it, we don’t want our guys wore out and unsafe or coming in with existing injuries to our jobs.

We try to pay enough to where they don’t even have to consider it. When my guys have time off, I don’t want them to have to think about where they can go get more money. I want them to think about where they can go relax and enjoy the good money they already make.


You can have a great family and the whole world but if you can’t enjoy it, what’s the point? Don’t get me wrong I put in my time and still do. I’m just saying it has to be for something other than work. I don’t live to work, I work to live. I sure do love what I do though!

 

[Scheffa]

Not many companies care about the employees anymore and just want to make the big profits at a cost to the worker.
I left my previous employer to start my own gig, primarily to be able to run it how I wanted to be treated, if that came with a decent profit that was a bonus.

My brother and i now run a lime clearance company.
We are one of the highest paying in our area, provide exceptional conditions for our guys with great incentives, have regular dinners with all crew and partners to keep the partners feeling involved and morale high.
I like to think of our crews as a footy team and I’m the captain and coach.

We often get asked how our crews are so productive, the answer is simple, look after your employees and they will look after you.

By doing what we do it does cost us money, however in return I have a crew that will answer the phone 24hrs a day, put in a solid days work and perform safely

 

[Rooted.Tree.Solutions]

I think tree care prices and wages have been so utterly stagnant for so long no one from clients to owners has any real expectation of rates ever going up.

For me to take a job as an employee it'd take $28 per hour starting with the end goal being $32-34 per hour with paid vacation, holidays, and benefits as a production climber and crew leader. A culture of safety and training to move into a training focused role would be a must. Not everyone wants to grow up to do sales.

The biggest issue I had working for a larger company was the sales first culture, sell the work and get it done at any cost. And the fact that working for a singular company is boring as sin. With the proliferation of lifts and loaders every salesman at that company thinks they can send a lift and a loader with a few dummies to run it and they can low-ball the price then get pissed when their arbitrary man hour goal isn't met.

I ran a crew at a 6 crew company and I was their hot shot climber, I got to climb a real tree once a month maybe, otherwise their climber crew was shaping crabapples and hedges and their lifts we're backlogged for 8 months.

I guess what I'm getting at is I'd much rather be on jobs that require my level of skill every day. I'm not above ground work, when I contract climb I drag brush, I move cribbing and plywood and show up with my own rake, shovel and backpack blower.

If you keep me entertained and pay me enough to buy a house and raise a family comfortably, I'd be all in. Being an owner is a headache I don't want to deal with really but it seems to be the only way to make enough money as a climber these days.

We are hiring at our company in Northern Indiana. Let me know if you’d be interested.

HigherGroundTreecare.com

 

[Mitch Hoy]

I really like how this thread has evolved. There are a lot of interesting perspectives here that otherwise wouldn't cross paths.
I don't know if I could ever go full time with a big outfit again. I'm obsessed with climbing, technical rigging, and falling. That's my arena. My situation makes sense for me and for the companies that I subcontract to because I get to be in my element all the time, constantly soaking in more experience and stimuli, and constantly evolving in pursuit of a better excellence. I am one of those weirdos that needs a craft to live, and I feel very lucky that I have this vocation to pour myself into, in this age of throw-away degrees and 10-year professions. The benefit to my clients is that they don't have to feed my beast or my wallet all the time. The only situation I could see myself giving up my gig and my subcontracting would be going to work for a company that owned a crane, and that would still be hard. Maybe when I'm older... #hookbaby...
That being said, I totally respect #CanaryBoss keeping things in house and treating his employees well. Our market can't seem to bear companies like that at this point in time. The big guys are all undercutting each other, mechanizing everything and driving wages and pricing into the basement floor. A new breed of subcontractor is emerging, as was mentioned before; guys who own their own equipment banding together on projects and all getting a decent cut. I participate a lot in that as well. Another barf-factor to our market that has pushed things this way is that in the last year we have gone from ~20 licensed companies to >45 in a city of a little over 100,000. In short, I feel like the market itself influences what works for our region and what doesn't. I actually do most of my subcontracting in a much larger metro an hour north, where prices are %30-50 higher. It's still a pretty feudalistic market up there, hence the need for guys like me.

 

[Sgfinco]

We are hiring at our company in Northern Indiana. Let me know if you’d be interested.

HigherGroundTreecare.com

Thanks bud, I appreciate it but I have pretty solid roots in Madison and plenty of offers to be an employee. I'm 25 and have a lot of years of going hard every day contracting left. It's been a wonderful experience for me but it's not for everyone. Best of luck.

 

[Sgfinco]

I really like how this thread has evolved. There are a lot of interesting perspectives here that otherwise wouldn't cross paths.
I don't know if I could ever go full time with a big outfit again. I'm obsessed with climbing, technical rigging, and falling. That's my arena. My situation makes sense for me and for the companies that I subcontract to because I get to be in my element all the time, constantly soaking in more experience and stimuli, and constantly evolving in pursuit of a better excellence. I am one of those weirdos that needs a craft to live, and I feel very lucky that I have this vocation to pour myself into, in this age of throw-away degrees and 10-year professions. The benefit to my clients is that they don't have to feed my beast or my wallet all the time. The only situation I could see myself giving up my gig and my subcontracting would be going to work for a company that owned a crane, and that would still be hard. Maybe when I'm older... #hookbaby...
That being said, I totally respect #CanaryBoss keeping things in house and treating his employees well. Our market can't seem to bear companies like that at this point in time. The big guys are all undercutting each other, mechanizing everything and driving wages and pricing into the basement floor. A new breed of subcontractor is emerging, as was mentioned before; guys who own their own equipment banding together on projects and all getting a decent cut. I participate a lot in that as well. Another barf-factor to our market that has pushed things this way is that in the last year we have gone from ~20 licensed companies to >45 in a city of a little over 100,000. In short, I feel like the market itself influences what works for our region and what doesn't. I actually do most of my subcontracting in a much larger metro an hour north, where prices are %30-50 higher. It's still a pretty feudalistic market up there, hence the need for guys like me.

Man crane work gets so boring! It's just too easy. I agree with your sub statement though, I have two other guys I work with frequently, one has a chip truck, chipper and loader, the other has a dump trailer and I bring climbing and rigging gear. We all have agreed to our sub prices and the primary contractor gets whatevers left depending on their sales skill. Keeps us all busy and equipped without needing employees.

 

[CanadianStan]

My old boss was kind of a dick ... and the way he ran his outfit left a lot to be desired. All the guys were ripping themselves apart to work as fast as possible and make as much money as possible ... meanwhile the boss would send us to 4 cities in one day, 4 days in a row .... it’s like he was sabotaging his own profits. And he laughed about it and in consequence we worked harder to actually get home at a reasonable time every day

So I started up my own thing ... contract climbing ... but I have control over my own schedule, my own tools and their maintenance, and most importantly as someone else mentioned : a sense of fulfillment every day because it’s (usually) challenging, technical, difficult, or hazardous.

 

[CanaryBoss]

I like the feedback. Sounds to me like most freelancers really just want to be their own boss. I can respect that. It’s definitely something working for a company full time cannot provide you.
I think if I was hired it would be for full benefits and no less than $2500 a week. I have a cdl, I can sell, and I can get the job done safely and quickly. If I was looking for a job I would pay me that much.

What are you worth?

 

[Sgfinco]

I like the feedback. Sounds to me like most freelancers really just want to be their own boss. I can respect that. It’s definitely something working for a company full time cannot provide you.
I think if I was hired it would be for full benefits and no less than $2500 a week. I have a cdl, I can sell, and I can get the job done safely and quickly. If I was looking for a job I would pay me that much.

What are you worth?

I agree. Being entertained by the work and having the authority to do things how I think they should be done is so important atleast to me.

I'd absolutely be an employee for $2500 per week, have a class A CDL, Isa certified, getting ctsp and traq this year, can sell work and manage people.

I think it's less about what you're worth and more what the market will bear and how well you negotiate.

 

[CanadianStan]

I agree. Being entertained by the work and having the authority to do things how I think they should be done is so important atleast to me.

I'd absolutely be an employee for $2500 per week, have a class A CDL, Isa certified, getting ctsp and traq this year, can sell work and manage people.

I think it's less about what you're worth and more what the market will bear and how well you negotiate.

In a similar position here ... Isa Tree care worker, arborist, TRAQ, Air brake endorsement (Canadian CDL equivalent), Advanced first aid ... yada yada

If I found a boss that would feed me interesting work, and not hedges, I'd be down.

As a contract climber I also REALLY enjoy not dealing with customers.

 

[CanaryBoss]

As a contract climber I also REALLY enjoy not dealing with customers.[/QUOTE]

When I’m on job sites unless asked directly I don’t even tell people im the owner.

 

[CanaryBoss]

So I see a pattern here. It seems like guys have gotten fed up with dealing with some big company or crappy bosses, just decide to become their own bosses and contract climb. On the contrary, I wonder if there’s some guys out there that Have gotten tired of contract climbing and dealing with new amateurs every day and have decided they have had enough and want to come work for a big company that’s not crappy?

Anybody on the verge Of just letting somebody else deal with the problems that come with being a boss?

 

[RBJtree]

I started my business when I was fed up with bad owners, low pay, and no flexibility. I would have a hard time going back to working for others, even if they payed well. I bring home slightly more money than I would as a climber for the top paying companies in my area, but I get lots of benefits that I would not get as an employee. Such as flexibility, a big work shop where I can do what I want, and the opportunity to build my company to the point where it could one day give me a semi retirement where I still make good money. If I play my cards right and put in the work, in the next couple years I could be doing much better. I didn't start my business until I was 31 and never intended to build it bigger. I just wanted to stay super small and stremlined with no headaches. I realized in the last couple years that is not sustainable and have been changing gears to build up. If I was a contract climber, at this point in my life I would be wondering what I will do in 10 years. I can climb 5 days a week now, but it gets harder every year and staying healthy gets harder every year. Are there 45-55 year old contract climbers? What will you do when you just can't keep up anymore?

 

[RBJtree]

In a similar position here ... Isa Tree care worker, arborist, TRAQ, Air brake endorsement (Canadian CDL equivalent), Advanced first aid ... yada yada

If I found a boss that would feed me interesting work, and not hedges, I'd be down.

As a contract climber I also REALLY enjoy not dealing with customers.

I never liked dealing with customers when I worked for other people. Nothing worse than having to be middle man between an angry customer and a dickhead owner. Turns out, I am pretty good with customers when they are my customers. I would still rather just climb, but when I get to talking to customers, sometimes I forget how much I would rather not and it turns out to not be so bad. Also, when you treat customers well and do great work, they tend to be happy and easy to deal with. I mean, they are paying me to have fun climbing their trees, how bad could they be?

 

[CanadianStan]

I never liked dealing with customers when I worked for other people. Nothing worse than having to be middle man between an angry customer and a dickhead owner. Turns out, I am pretty good with customers when they are my customers. I would still rather just climb, but when I get to talking to customers, sometimes I forget how much I would rather not and it turns out to not be so bad. Also, when you treat customers well and do great work, they tend to be happy and easy to deal with. I mean, they are paying me to have fun climbing their trees, how bad could they be?

I never thought of what MY customers would look like ... and I couldn't agree more.

I'm realizing that the past customers were angry because my boss either A) lied to them or B) made unrealistic promises .... I like your perspective. I think I would also find myself with likeminded customers that appreciate quality ... so far the customers I have from consulting have been amazing to deal with

 

[Baja Mike]

Rates should be based on what contract climbers can bring to the table. Contract climbers that can do any tree provided they have access to the right equipment should be getting a minimum of $500.00 a day. If I personally was climbing I would want $750.00 a day. I agree with @CanaryBoss that rates should be $2500.00 a week for employees that can do what I can do, I still haven’t found one yet. All my perspective employees will come work for a couple days to see if we are a good fit for one another. They show me what they can do and pay is based accordingly. I tell everyone that works for me the more you can do for me, the less I have to do thierfore I can pay you more.

 

[Serf Life]

when I get to talking to customers, sometimes I forget how much I would rather not and it turns out to not be so bad. Also, when you treat customers well and do great work, they tend to be happy and easy to deal with.

That sums it up. The customer service part of being self-employed is usually more taxing than climbing for me but rarely as bad as I expect. Either way, it is worth it for the flexibility and more $/hr than working for someone else who can't/won't pay more than twenty bucks an hour. I have a 8 month old and my wife is self-employed, if I was working full time for a company I'd be missing out on a whole bunch and the lady would be way more exhausted.

 

[Smurph86]

I used to freelance a lot. I had a small tree service and an excellent climber and bucket truck. Me being on site was like having two chippers there, pointless. So I started freelancing. I guess i just wanted to see what other people were doing. I feel I gained a lot from it. When I started this company, I tried to add up all the good ways I saw companies being run to make my own culmination of it.

Anyway, this was thirteen years ago. It was in central Florida and I was a ace climber for sure. I did not use my own insurance for them and never needed to. Still, I was climbing for $400+ a day. I would think the rates were much higher today, but I don’t know for sure cause I don’t use any freelancers. What if somebody got seriously hurt? I mean hurt bad? As the owner of this company, I would be left holding the bag. What if I didn’t have the money to pay for his injuries? What if he couldn’t take care of his family because of it? I couldn’t live with. Not to mention, it this litigious society we live in, what if my customer lost everything they worked hard for to pay for some guys injury that they just trusted me that I was responsible for?

I’m rambling I guess. I don’t know if I’m even adding value to this thread. Just thought it was interesting and wanted to chime in.

I have a question for you top notch freelancers out there, what would it take for you to accept a full time job?

I hear guys say, “I make more freelancing”. I don’t know if it’s really true, but at what point does the value of consistency weight in? Paid vacation? Workers comp? Time and a half? Tracked lifts and bucket trucks to use instead of always climbing? Insurance benefits? Being part of a team? ...

I really try to lead the industry in my area in pay. I want my guys to have a good quality of life. I really do. But I allow no freelancing. It’s us or nothing. Name your price. What would it take to get you on our team? We are hiring, but I’m asking out of curiosity really.

I've been in the tree industry for 10 years. I'm not the best but I'm pretty damn good. I have all of my own gear, basically everything besides a truck and chipper. My goal is to one day have my own company and make a good name for myself. I don't want to be known as a hack. I used to freelance a lot but now maybe once a month. I am in the local 1919 tree trimmers union as a foreman so I'm not climbing near as much as I used to. The benefits are the main reason I am with the company that I am with. If i were to be with another company who didnt offer the same benefits I would expect no less than 40/hour