falling challenge big tulip through deck

I see you deleted your post, but I am going to respond anyhow Daniel.

I don’t think you understand what I am saying buddy. When a top first begins going over it creates pushback. That’s what they do. After that pushback the spar has no choice but to spring back and begin moving in a forward direction. This forward push can really help launch a top in a forward motion, but you must allow the top to stay on the stump as long as possible. This is done by way of the proper undercut for the situation, and allowing your hinge to do its job. A good climber will learn to use and manipulate this pushback/forward movement phenomena to his/her advantage when needed.
 
rico said:
I see you deleted your post, but I am going to respond anyhow Daniel.

I don’t think you understand what I am saying buddy. When a top first begins going over it creates pushback. That’s what they do. After that pushback the spar has no choice but to spring back and begin moving in a forward direction. This forward push can really help launch a top in a forward motion, but you must allow the top to stay on the stump as long as possible. This is done by way of the proper undercut for the situation, and allowing your hinge to do its job. A good climber will learn to use and manipulate this pushback/forward movement phenomena to his/her advantage when needed.
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You got Newton on your side with this one Rico. Specifically his third law.
 
Daniel said:
An object in motion tends to stay in motion.... it's the forward motion (at the beginning of the fall) that will carry the tree forward....
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You are correct, the object in motion stays in motion - but it is NOT linear forward motion of the top, it is angular motion of the top around the hinge. Choose two points: the center of the stem immediately below the cut and the center of the stem immediately above the cut. The angular motion at first creates almost NIL movement until the faces close and the hinge separates - then the top central point gains horizontal acceleration away from the bottom central point.
A narrow face cut angle will allow the hinge to break sooner, and will allow increased acceleration between the central points for a longer period of time. A fatter face cut will bend the hinge longer with no horizontal movement prior to hinge separation.
To compound this horizontal movement, you want to turn the gravitational force of the top central point into a horizontal force, by allowing the face to slide on the spar's lip.
 
You are simply pulling very hard on your tag line with a truck while the top is in flight. Truly amazing Daniel, but I’m not really sure how that is relevant to the pushback/forward push phenomena, which you have declared bullshit, by the way.
 
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rico said:
I see you deleted your post, but I am going to respond anyhow Daniel.

I don’t think you understand what I am saying buddy. When a top first begins going over it creates pushback. That’s what they do. After that pushback the spar has no choice but to spring back and begin moving in a forward direction. This forward push can really help launch a top in a forward motion, but you must allow the top to stay on the stump as long as possible. This is done by way of the proper undercut for the situation, and allowing your hinge to do its job. A good climber will learn to use and manipulate this pushback/forward movement phenomena to his/her advantage when needed.
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I do understand the process

I've spent a lot of time looking at the release of tops in slow motion...
 
No matter how hard you pull the top will start moving faster than you can go very quickly

Which is evident by the pull line going slck...

That's why when pulling with the truck I started with a good bit of play in the line so truck had speed when line got tight
 
Some day someone is going to get themselves hurt by watching one of Daniel's video and thinking it's safe/acceptable. If you want to post a video like a cowboy, go ahead, but please inform everyone at the beginning that it's not a good idea and do not emulate it in any way.
 
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There is no way that push back would throw either the pine or the oak top more than a few feet...

If you want to throw a big top you need speed... the whole top has to be moving forward at release..

As soon as the top releases, gravity takes over and the piece starts accelerating groundward

So the arc traveled will be a combination of the two movements accelerating with gravity and the movement of the top existing at separation

You can't change gravity....

Usually by the time the top releases the pull line will go slack and have no more effect on the arc

So getting the top moving forward as fast as possible at separation is the goal... if you cut a wide notch, say 45 degrees or more the top will be moving more down than forward... a 15 to 20 degree notch will allow early separation while the top is moving more forward than down.


That is going to be far far more effective at throwing a top on the trees I work on, than anything you can get from pushback
 
Ryan Keats said:
Some day someone is going to get themselves hurt by watching one of Daniel's video and thinking it's safe/acceptable. If you want to post a video like a cowboy, go ahead, but please inform everyone at the beginning that it's not a good idea and do not emulate it in any way.
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I’m an asshole by nature, but this is the very reason I have been on Daniel like white on rice, or stink on shit. His vids and pics will get someone hurt, if it hasn’t already happened.
 
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I don’t see how that’s possible if the person reading these posts or watching Daniels videos is the least bit competent. I’ve learned more from Rico and Daniel going back and forth on saw handling than anywhere else as far as online goes. Each persons style may be different or you both may have different thought processes but the back and forth has really made me reflect on my own saw handling and each tid bit of information I catch I try and recognize throughout my work day and implement into my own practices or regard as not for me. I’ve seen a lot in 8 years of tree work but am still young and inexperienced at 26. Yet actually reading these guys debate post by post on multiple threads has made me a better saw handler. So I thank each of you for the energy you bring to these topics. Also I find it very entertaining.
 
I generally believe people are smart enough to watch a video and learn, or know when it's beyond their capacity....

Had plenty of feedback saying that they've learned a lot, made a huge difference etc... the ladder safety video has gotten the most feedback, mostly from homeowners seeing the dangers and calling a pro
 
A quick you tube search of intentional barber chair with information such as it is safe and no one will get hurt. Just do a quick scan of the comments and you will quickly discover people think he is the greatest tree man of all time and they can't wait to try his methods. Making a cut on a forward leaning tree with no face cut is bad practice, but worse posting it like you are the second coming is down right dangerous. Then when the tree does barber chair and stays on the stump (for lack of a better word because it really is just a split trunk) he says ohhh I guess we will need to use the machine so I can cut it off...because a lot of home owners own a skid steer with a grapple. A lot of his other videos are similar. A lot of talking and "pioneered" methods. He does display an aptitude with a saw, but for god's sakes man keep your pioneering to yourself and if you decide to post please educate people with "inside the box," proven and safe techniques
 
rico said:
. This forward push can really help launch a top in a forward motion, but you must allow the top to stay on the stump as long as possible. This is done by way of the proper undercut for the situation, and allowing your hinge to do its job.
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This is utterly and completely wrong perhaps you just made a mistake in the wording but keeping on the stump as long as possible will end up with your butt 20' behind the stump not throwing forward

Having a hinge that takes a lot of energy to break can actually slow the top down after the face closes which is another thing you don't want to happen

On a monster tree the hinge isn't going to do much to stop theMomentum of such a Big Top but when trying to throw a smaller top is very important to cripple the hinge To a point where it will not slow the top down

tell me you didn't mean it please
 
Serf Life said:
Daniel's most watched: 1.9m and 1.2m views each from 8 yrs ago
Human's most watched: 2.6m, 2m, and 1.1m views all from this past year
Reg Coates hasn't had one pass 450k and he knows what he's doing. I hear ya @RyTheTreeGuy but that is a losing battle with youtube university.
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In this line of work there are those who view things with a truly educated eye, and those who don’t. If you don’t know what the fuck your doing, how do you expect to know when your watching someone else who doesn’t know what the fuck they are doing? Thus you end up with fools like Daniel and Human being portrayed as so-called experts on the inter web.

Reg is simply one of the best climbers/treemen walking the planet.

Man and Daniel? Not so much.
 
I don't doubt that Daniel and Human do things right, most of the time. I never watched Daniel's vids but I do Human's. and I think he does know what he's doing but maybe he's giving too much attention to the camera, at least it seems to me. Concentrate on making good cuts bro, if it ain't good enough for the vid, just leave it out. Don't want a rookie to pick up any sloppy habits from the vids. The MS462 video comes to mind - too much pinching the bar.
 
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