Major Decision

Steve Connally

Steve Connally

Been here much more than a while
Location
Suffolk, Virginia
So in lite of recent events and the fact that every time I go to an out of town tree related event, my eyes are opened to how it could be and whats wrong with how it is. I'm contemplating a major change. It's pretty drastic when you look at it at face and financial value. I have 2 options. I'd preface theses examples by saying my options in companies that are worth working for are slim. Our market is inbred with bad businessmen and poor safety habits.
The things i'm considering are to either try subcontracting as a climber with the intention of buying a compact lift and subbing for not only trees but various other markets needing a compact lift and operator. I have friends who own a high end holiday light company and various landscapers who do elevated accent lighting. My worry is i'll price myself out of the market. I would be licensed and insured as a sub as well as have a written contract and a billing system. Most subs in my area are a cash transaction guys who aren't insured or legit. I am looking into insurance and the like. The only capitol investment would be the lift and a trailer. Otherwise i'm fully equipped. I just hate the idea of working for every crappy outfit instead of the just one I work for now.

The second is to progress towards a large kboom with a grapple saw. There isn't a kboom for tree work within 100 miles from me. The versatility of a boom over a stick crane is pretty amazing. Marketing hazard tree removal and crane rental is pretty appealing. I talked to a guy who has one and pays 4k a month on his loan and still banks 10k a month ontop of that. It's a monster of an investment. I think I could make it work with rentals other than tree work. I just don't know if the market would support me. I don't really know how to market it either! Is there an operator certification for booms outside of tree work?

Lastly I could get a small truck and chipper and do tree care. What i'm trying to do is some way to avoid the issues with employees and this option doesn't fit that bill. Thats the albatross of being a business owner. The employee market around here is awful.

I'm at a real crossroads and need to build something for my retirement, sanity, and safety.

Looking for opinions from guys who have taken the dive. I know there are some amazing subs out there but i'm not the caliber of pfanner man or they guys who travel all over the country subbing. I can't travel. Just not in the cards.

Opinions, pros and cons greatly appreciated.

I need to do something
 
Steve, I like the boom grapple but you would need to seriously consider how much your customers are willing to pay as compared to customers in your guys area. If you have that many hacks and lowballers down there you may end up over priced or not finding enough work. Which will mean you may have to be the lowballer and just book any and every job just to make it work.
 
I will start off by saying that your looking to go out on your own....so if you do not want employees or want a limited number...then Crane is the answer!
4K a month is pocket change...It might not seam like that now...but it is. If you can qualify for a 300K dollar loan then you will hustle your ass off to make that payment. I know you will!
The reality is...the sky is the limit. Just the get the crane with a grapple and a bed to load the logs. It will sell itself.

The questions that need to be answered are what can you charge a day? Whats the absolute lowest you can charge...then whats the absolute highest? Can you be somewhere in the middle and still be profitable?

I do not know your market, but I would think that the crane would pull in about 150 an hour. Thats kinda low..but again I do not know your market. Whats your current company make a day? With employees and all their equipment?

150 an hour for an 8 hour day...for three days a week. That equates to 172,000 a year. Your cost of doing business...lets say...is around 60% of that...so 172,000x .60= 103,000 so thats leaving you a salary of around 69K that would be before taxes. Again, I am just running a scenario by you.

Now, imagine if you run this thing 5 or 6 days a week... now you start to see what this can make you in money. Buy it already. I am seriously looking into getting one myself for next year. I have a great crew, but limited climbers. I have been subbing out my stick crane about two days a week and this would allow me to sub my crane out more...while I go with the crew of 1 or 2 employees with the grapple crane.
 
Hey I got a little story. I learned to climb from my uncle while I was in high school. After that I climbed for tree company's in my area for almost 13 years. I'm in a small town with companies that are exactly like what you're talking about. They don't care about me or safety. About 4 years ago I started my own outfit and every year we've almost doubled our profit. We're safe and take care of our employees. It's been alot of work but we've come a long way in a short time. If you have the experience and knowledge take a chance. You won't regret it but do you're research and know what you're getting into.

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk
 
I've been stuck with the marketing aspect myself. Do you have enough contacts to form a base and then have a lot of work from word of mouth, or would you have to advertise?
 
Another option is to get in with small overhead so that you don't lose your house if your crane sits. Think moped towing arbor trolley with grcs, with full safety gear/business cards/portfolio, subbing wood hauling. That pickup won't take your tree down unless you stoop to the level of the other guys. Why maintain, insure, and gas it? Since you've got kids, you may be looking at a fuel-efficient crew cab dump bed isuzu with one of Top Notch's loaders, or a transit crew (if that exists) with arbor trolley, or just a plain old used toyota matrix hatch or Chevy blazer. Rent a crane when you need it. If the equipment is new with signage, then whazam, you're fully professional. Then, set yourself apart by instituting St. Patrick's day kilt-based tree services.

A kboom grapple saw will require 100k down payment. If you've got that, it's a legit consideration, after market research.

The bucket lifts seem hard to monetize as a primary piece of equipment. Danger, Will Robinson!

My market is low on chippers. I don't get them, personally. I think it's me, not y'all.

Vans are better than trucks. Trucks are pure status symbols. It's a symbol of how much inefficiency you can bear and still stay in business.

Lastly, keep yo day job and do phc on the side. The kit is compact, fits in a trunk. Consulting is good, late career, so make sure you're positioned when that time comes. Phc is chronically undersold.
 
Do it Steve! Something that has been working very well for me is getting in contact and twisting arms to get them to MEET IN PERSON. And the best contacts have been higher end landscape companies.
They know what's out there for tree guys. They are either sending the work to a good company or using someone they don't like referring their customers to.
Another suggestion is to write up a mock tree maintenance program for a property and bring it to meet these people.
To seperate yourself from the other tree guys, you gotta sell people on the idea that they need an ARBORIST to TELL their clients what their tree needs are FOR THEIR LANDSCAPE.
"You guys do lawn care? I have experience with thinning tree cover canopies over shaded lawns. Saves many arguments with your clients about trying to grow grass in dense shade"

You know your area, think outside the box and you WILL find the people who need you. You just might have to sell them the idea that they need YOU, Steve connally.
I'd say you would have 95% of us taking you on as a sub. Your not the only one who sees the local tree industry the way you do.
Good luck Steve
 
Everyone has great points so far. I can understand the draw to the kboom and grapple saw, it makes sense in many of the markets we all face... employee wise at the very least. But it won't do everything for every tree.
You can still climb, you can work with other contractors in the area or even from the buzz... you definitely have a good enough reputation. Start out small and build your foundation and grow the business. Education is going to be a huge part of your business, not so much you learning how to do tree work, but educating you potential clients what quality work is. To sell the work you will need to convince them they need it done.
Royce is in a very unique market (I mean no offense either as I love that area). He has a labor pool to hire from that is terrible at best. He has already picked up the best in the business and there isn't much left. In addition many of his competitors are old guys that have "done it this way for years". So in order for him to continue to grow he has to make the most out of the guys he has. Where I was going with this is he has grown an absolutely fabulous foundation and worked extremely hard to get to where he is. And has the base to support a grapple saw truck.
Long story short my route would be start small. And build an empire!
 
I had my own biz for 6 years. I only operated about 3 to 4 days a week because I was the sole climber and didn't have anyone to manage things when I was at the fire station. I had 2 chip trucks, chipper, dump trailer, stump grinder, pick up and all the soft goods you would have with a full service tree company. I billed out 250k a year but due to the limitation of employees and the fact I was growing the biz, my profit margin was only 10%. I did make all my purchases with the company card so those benefits probably added another 15k a year on top of the cash. What did me in was employees. You just can't make it without good people. The lack of reliable people increased my work load and took a major toll on my marriage. I had to step away. I won't and can't be in that position again.

I'm worried about subbing. I'm worried about who i'll have to work with when I show up on the job site. I can weed out the crappy outfits but then will I only have a few groups to work with. I'd hate to "picky" myself out of the market.

The kboom set up would allow me to work with no employees. My idea is to market as a crane and hazardous tree specialist. The kboom allows you to work the tree from the ground to a manageable size and take a lot of the hazards out with the grapple saw. The remote on the boom also allows you to be the climber and the operator if need be. There are also many scenarios that you could use the kboom outside of tree work that a stick boom wont work efficiently. When you look at the horizontal load chart, it's amazing. I don't know about hauling wood though. I would basically charge to haul wood and there are a bunch of guys who haul logs around here for free. To make money logging I'd need a tractor trailer and a lot and have to make multiple runs to the mill to make it work. The mills around here have stopped taking logs over 24" for some reason or another. So I don't know if putting a lift body on it to haul logs is the best idea since there isn't any money in it.

I wonder how difficult it would be to sub to a utility contractor in those situations where the need a crane or the grapple say is the most effective means to remove a tree over utilities? We have a lot of marine industry and small shipyards. I suppose the kboom would have an application there as well. I think a 33t goes for anywhere between $150 to $175 per hour portal to portal. I could charge that then up the price with the saw for hazards. Up the price again if they need a climber with the crane.

What certification is needed for a kboom operator? How do I market the service? I know a lot of people in the biz around here and certainly could start with people I know who might use me because I'm me. Some wouldn't because I'm me. LOL It's a lot to ask and I have a lot of questions. I just don't want the stress of employees. I may find out I do well enough that I could pick up a couple good guys and run a small tree crew off the profits and rent out at the same time.

Hard to say but I appreciate everyones input. I think I know I could make it work successfully. :))) I do think it's market dependent and who is willing to do things safer and more efficiently on hazard trees.

I'm excited but scared shitless.
 
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Are you talking instead of the kboom or in addition to it? Starting a tree service at this point equipment wise is close to the cost of a treemek if I was going to get quality stuff with low hours. The biggest drawback is employees. I just don't want the headache. A treemek would completely solve that issue. With the remote operation I could be the climber and operator after the learning curve was overcome. That is the biggest selling point for me on the idea. Not everyone needing a tree craned down has a climber capable of doing it safely.
 
Even with the tree mek I still don't see how your doing this solo. Dosent there have to be another truck and chipper ..... Don't you need to get rid of the tree after it's down ? Or is this basically the same service as a contract climber without the climbing ? If so how long will it take said companies to realize they can just go buy a tree mek and run a 2 man crew and not have to worry about finding a decent workforce as well ?? Feel free to bash away I'm just the solo part-time hack striving for professionalism.
 
I would be a crane rental company. If needed I'd use the saw for hazard mitigation or and if say a landscaper wanted a tree down and they would handle disposal. I don't want to do the clean up or manage any ground work, employees, multiple vehicles, ect. You need a crane, call me. You need a dead tree worked back to a manageable size for your company, call me. You're a landscaper and you want a low impact removal and you take care of debris removal, call me.

If you look at the equipment on the road around here as a generality, nobody buys a new chip truck much less a 1/4 of a million dollar specialty truck. Maybe 3 companies I can think of with their own crane and the biggest is a 35t. He has the crane but the rest of his stuff spits out bolts and pieces as it rolls down the road. I'm not seeing anyone spending the dough on this anytime soon. Maybe after a lot of exposure. I was a nonbeliever at first. It took a while to figure out I could live comfortably off this set-up. Look I'm a couple steps away from 50, retirement from the fire department and I'd like to keep at tree work. The treemek is the answer. If it works and I end up feeling like I'm missing a market share by being just a rental guy, then I get setup via the profit of the kboom and pay 2 great guys stupid money and benefits to be a tree service again. I can still market the company as a crane and climber service. If the crane's slow I can go do some climbing as a sub. Either way at face value it seems like a win, win.
 
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