Pulling with vehicle, etc.

Tom Dunlap

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
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Retired in Minneapolis
How often do you pull a trunk/tree over with a vehicle?

What safeguards do you have in place if you do?

Have you ever broken a rope when pulling with a vehicle? If so, what was the rope diameter?

I'm fishing here in the pool of tribal knowledge. Of course I have my answers and they'll come out after some discussion.
 
It's not something I really do anymore, though I will pull with a winch sometimes. First company I worked for we broke a rope once but it was because the ass driving the truck didn't stop once it was on the ground. Believe that was a 5/8 rope that was long past its retirement point.
 
Do it all the time. Never broke a rope. Pulling with a truck is safer then winches. We have a winch on a truck and chipper, I think they are dangerous for several reasons we have experienced with no grave results.

Biggest don't do... Pull too hard too soon. Before cut, ropes set, I have some one tension rope with truck in 4x4lo while I wiggle rope as it tensions so I can stop truck when it is mildly adequate from possible setting back. Kept in gear with foot brake applied. Notched and back cut. If no head sets, I insure driver can see my head nod, when I nod go. Usually I stop cutting, get clear and nod. Some times I see the squat happening on a leaner and start the nod early. Mostly we pull with trucks close to 180 to the lean.
I prefer hand/ pulley pulls for feel. When I'm scared of my truck getting pulled, we notch out a shelf in the beginning of the back cut and fit bottle jacks.
 
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Yea we use the mini all the time. Some times we over estimate a tad and an extra person finishes the job, either hopping on mini for traction or simply pulling down on rope. Wet grass or up hill can reduce power. A redirect and/or down hill helps. Def use a redirect with Prussik back up if you think it could go wrong way. Could not imagine breaking a rope from the mini. Remember, never cut your holding wood. Relax and use the force!
 
All the time with the skidsteer. 2 times a week, sometimes more.
Broke a line once. Due to needing extra length, attached 3 strand (Samson Tree Master 13mm) to double braid with improper knot...back to back sheet bends if I remember correctly. Had a couple of wedges in the back cut as a safeguard. 3 strand popped at the union of the two ropes. Ever since have used Zeppelin or Double Fisherman Knot successfully. But not a normal circumstance to need that much line.

I always think how dangerous it could be if the broken line comes back in the cab. We try to to position the bucket in the way when possible. Always wear hardhat and face shield.
 
Winches scare me.
Our winches do not hold, both the electric and hydraulic, they back off to a degree when not actuated. Have backed them up with prussiks, prefer to back the truck up.

Once had a simple big spruce removal, line shot over top, winch employed. Stood next to tree and actuated slick winch remote to pre tension line, remote failed and kept tensioning. I started running towards truck and was expecting to hear the tree snap. Once I reached the truck I released the tension with the free spool lever. Then had to pull battery out of control to stop the actuation. I could not believe a tree could bend over like that with out snapping or up rooting! She wiggled longer then it took to calm my nerves!
 
Tom Dunlap said:
How often do you pull a trunk/tree over with a vehicle?

What safeguards do you have in place if you do?

Have you ever broken a rope when pulling with a vehicle? If so, what was the rope diameter?

How do you know how much force you are pulling, if using a motorized vehicle? Not recommended to use for pulling over trees. Cycles to failure will come into play eventually. A 5 to 1 can be converted to a 10 to 1 by adding 1 single pulley.

I'm fishing here in the pool of tribal knowledge. Of course I have my answers and they'll come out after some discussion.
Click to expand...
 
Pull with vehicle/mechanical winch with discernment - when chosen, employ a "fusible link". i.e. VT or Machard. Which will slip if over loaded and provide indicator of fault in the plan. I've only broken a line with huge MA applied.
 
Have used vehicles (ranging from miniskid to dump truck to a skidder) since day one.
Have had a few ropes get snapped due to vehicle driver inexperience (pulling way too hard). Better communication would help that.
 
Use a truck often. We only hold the tree in place in order to cut notch/backcut, then use minimal pull to get it to tip. I'd like to put an enforcer somewhere in the system to see how much force we really put on lines, but I doubt it is over the ropes WLL.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
How often do you pull a trunk/tree over with a vehicle?

When I was running a crew I rarely pulled with a vehicle. A vehicle would often be used for an anchor. I built a bollard mounted on a 2" receiver hitch. On one van I had a reciever hitch on the front too. We'd tension the line and then add a piggy back mechanical advantage using the bollard to capture progress. It didn't take long to add the piggy back. In fact, we rarely lost time since the anchoring would be setup while the feller was making the face cut. By the time that was done the bollard/MA would be set.

What safeguards do you have in place if you do?

The MA was connected to the anchor/pullover rope typically using a Klemheist. The slack in the rope was taken up as the MA was compressed. This gave the pulling crew a very direct tactile feel for the tension.

Have you ever broken a rope when pulling with a vehicle? If so, what was the rope diameter?

The only times that a rope was broken using a vehicle was when we'd ground drag logs or brush piles. There was always a 'tender' walking along with the load. They would signal to the driver to stop or slow down. If they lollygagged and the log submarined or a brush pile rolled and a butt piece dug in the vehicle would pull...and the rope would break. Whoever was lollygagging got pulled from that duty and put on the worst duty at hand. Big demotion...let them think about how they messed up. I never broke a rigging line...period....going all the way back to using 5/8 3-strand manila rope. Early on I learned about cycles to failure and safety factors.

I'm fishing here in the pool of tribal knowledge. Of course I have my answers and they'll come out after some discussion.
Click to expand...

This poll started after a rope broke pulling a tree over. the details aren't complete but this is what I've gleaned.

The crew cut off just enough of the tree to make it fit the space.
A large tree
3/4" double braid used for the pullover... the rope was pretty new and not beat-up
Tied off in the canopy of the tree
Redirected off the base of another tree to a bollard on a bucket truck
Fast forward...miscommunication...blah blah blah

Rope breaks...no one hurt...the tree goes whanging back to vertical but fortunately doesn't back-break the hinge!

Another accident...possibly death or injury...dodged.
 
okay Tom fair call, I have performed many assisted fells over the years using trucks, 4x4's, tractors, heavy machinary and a 4x4 stump grinder but never broke the rope during any of these .
I have deliberately pushed a rope till it broke trying to drag or move a piece on the ground whether it was a trunk or crown section because I was retiring the rope and wanted to see what it takes to break it also same result trying to free a bogged vehicle like a loaded chip truck ( told 'em don't go down that far!).
I have seen first hand a lowering rope detonate several times either due to overloading or too many wraps at the friction drum but never snapped a rope old or otherwise with a assisted felling operation.
 
Chip truck, F350, 450, 550 4x4s, mini, Bobcat, Kubota 4x4 tractor, grapples, and excavators. Only broke a 9/16 stable braid when the grapple operator tried to pull over a tree loaded with vines attached to other trees. Kept hauling and hauling until the rope snapped. I was not a happy camper. Otherwise, we use it carefully, loading it slightly and then setting the hinge. We use the mini often to do the pulling to keep the groundsmen free to continue working. Very efficient. Where it may not be sufficient alone then I've added MA. Makes the pull very precise.
 
IF we do it a backup line is installed and wedges are set to back up the 2 ropes. Alot of it I feel is knowing the condition and elasticity of the fibers of the tree your felling and setting up a proper and accurate hinge of the appropriate thickness and length.
 
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