Ultra sling length for smallish trees?

D

dmonn

Branched out member
Location
Port Washington Wisconsin
I'm just starting to graduate to rigging down pieces of trees. Most of the trees I deal with are dead ash, and most are less than 24" DBH. I just picked up a rigging block and a portawrap. I do most of my tree work by myself. I also picked up a whoopie sling (5/8"), and have some Tenex Tec to use to make one or two ultra slings.

I plan to use the whoopie sling on the portawrap, and the ultra sling on the rigging block and another on an X Ring. What's a convenient length for an ultra sling? Is using an ultra sling the way to go for the block and ring, or should I go with a dead-eye sling for those? What I rig to may have some pretty small diameters (5 or 6 inch maple or boxelder stems), and some may be 20-24 inches.

I'll only be dropping pieces that are small enough for me to pick up one end by myself, and I've done enough tree work at this point to be able to eyeball the piece and know it's small enough for that.

Any other hardware rope suggestions?
 
Well if it’s too long you can always wrap it around once or twice before choking it. Same is true with a lot of rope slings, not just ultra slings. A 12’ or 15’ ultra would be really useful.
 
Most of the ones I made for using in the tree are 6 to 10 feet long, with the majority in the 6 to 8 foot range. Seems to be about right for the trees around here (I'm in Nebraska). Remember that the useable length will be a little shorter (about a foot) than the total length.
 
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I've made some really quite short ultra ring sling things with 1/2" Tenex (maybe 4 -5 ft. long) for rigging smaller top pieces - these have "pockets" that you can just squeeze the small X ring thru. I've choked 'em on stems as small as 3" - 4" with success for light rigging - just wind the rest timber hitch fashion to get rid of dangly ends near running rigging. Another thing you can do, at least with conifers, is leave some 2"-3" branch stubs where you want to tie off rather than cut them flush. Or on some skinny smooth stems, I've cut 2 to 3 shallow notches into the trunk to help stuff stay put a bit on smooth bark trees (esp. if it's wet or slushy snowy). These things have worked well over two or three years of busted tree top-ology so far. Some of the commercial stuff I've tried is just way too big/ long for the trees I work on out prairie-west here. Have fun . . . jigging stuff is half the neatness factor.
 
I have used a 15' dead eye safebloc and an ultra sling with cmi steel block. I'm more in favor of the long dead eye tail at this point because the wear gets dispersed and because the dead eye tail is really easy to rig when it is long. You can wrap it several times then just tuck it in as a formality instead of making a robust logger hitch. Or, you can double it over and wrap it fewer times, or wrap it around two branches above a fork. Obviously, this comes with some disclaimers...

The ultrasling gets flat and glazed at the front ring where it accepts the block. I have no idea what its strength is at this point. It also takes force repeatedly at the head of each loop along the chain of loops. So the wear is very uneven and focused at a small number of locations. The security of knowing that it will not come unknotted or un-fingertrapped was great for the early/mid part of my career.
 
colb said:
I have used a 15' dead eye safebloc and an ultra sling with cmi steel block. I'm more in favor of the long dead eye tail at this point because the wear gets dispersed and because the dead eye tail is really easy to rig when it is long. You can wrap it several times then just tuck it in as a formality instead of making a robust logger hitch. Or, you can double it over and wrap it fewer times, or wrap it around two branches above a fork. Obviously, this comes with some disclaimers...

The ultrasling gets flat and glazed at the front ring where it accepts the block. I have no idea what its strength is at this point. It also takes force repeatedly at the head of each loop along the chain of loops. So the wear is very uneven and focused at a small number of locations. The security of knowing that it will not come unknotted or un-fingertrapped was great for the early/mid part of my career.
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Ever since I learned the cow hitch, I've loved dead eyes for everything except moving repeatedly like when blocking down a spar. You always get to have it as snug as you want.

I mostly use the ultra slings because they set quickly and are light and easy to pop on and thread a rope through the ring. You can even set them quickly with one hand, but they just don't match the versatility of a dead eye. I don't use an ultra on anything but rings.
 
JeffGu said:
This will give you an idea of the maximum limb size for a choked ultrasling, using the last pocket.

Useable Length --- Diameter of Piece

5' ---- 1.5'
6' ---- 1.9'
7' ---- 2.2'
8' ---- 2.5'
9' ---- 2.8'
10' ---- 3'
11' ---- 3.5'
12' ---- 3.8'
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thank you for posting! Was looking for something like this a few weeks back.. Obviously i was too lazy to do the math on these.... Duhh.. derr..derr.. 3.14π ÷ ¥ × 69^ + x/y × £ + 5 = Sasquatch sighting..lol. Don't worry, i got this!

Haha.. Serious question now..
Any of y'all make em a bit longer than you need so you can double choke them around a union or something..? Spread the forces out? Or even go as far as hitch them up as a marl?
Is it advised not to choke against the tail pocket?
 
Joeybagodonuts said:
Awesome! Thank you for posting! Was looking for something like this a few weeks back.. Obviously i was too lazy to do the math on these.... Duhh.. derr..derr.. 3.14π ÷ ¥ × 69^ + x/y × £ + 5 = Sasquatch sighting..lol. Don't worry, i got this!

Haha.. Serious question now..
Any of y'all make em a bit longer than you need so you can double choke them around a union or something..? Spread the forces out? Or even go as far as hitch them up as a marl?
Is it advised not to choke against the tail pocket?
Click to expand...
The pockets should all be good or not be present.
 
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SomethingWitty said:
The pockets should all be good or not be present.
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I would think so too as well... Theres just part of my mind that thought i remembered hearing something.. something regarding choking against the very last set of brumells before the tail... something about an ability to unweave or not be as strong. Maybe it's just a scenario i recall regarding brumells & tech cord unweaving if tail bury isn't long enough..

I know when i terminate my Ultra's in a normal "tail configuration" i leave at least a good 6-8 inches before the taper starts for that termination's overlapping x-over. I would want to think that's good enough for that last pocket.

I am curious however, why TS's page carries the disclaimer about using it in a choke only configuration. Obviously it's designed for use like that, but in reality there are other configurations that could be useful as well that could make it more multi-purpose.
 
Joeybagodonuts said:
...using it in a choke only configuration...
Click to expand...

I believe that is because putting a carabiner through one of the pockets and loading it is bad mojo... it could break one leg of the pocket at less than the sling's rating. There's a lot going on with an ultrasling. There's no way each leg will be loaded equally throughout the sling. This is not a big deal with it choked around a limb because there's a LOT of friction, enough to even out the loading considerably. I don't think that's the case in other configurations.

Last pocket is safe to use if the tails are dealt with correctly... so if you spliced rings onto the tails, you should stick a carabiner through the rings as a backup when using the last pocket.
 
JeffGu said:
I believe that is because putting a carabiner through one of the pockets and loading it is bad mojo... it could break one leg of the pocket at less than the sling's rating. There's a lot going on with an ultrasling. There's no way each leg will be loaded equally throughout the sling. This is not a big deal with it choked around a limb because there's a LOT of friction, enough to even out the loading considerably. I don't think that's the case in other configurations.

Last pocket is safe to use if the tails are dealt with correctly... so if you spliced rings onto the tails, you should stick a carabiner through the rings as a backup when using the last pocket.
Click to expand...

With a biner through a pocket like a snake tail/anchor i can see the reasoning & how it can get loaded to one side.. I totally get that... & trying to explain additional "ok" uses on their website could get a bit wordy.. so its understandable... I just see it as... I have two legs of tenex here, how else can i load this thing evenly & get other uses out of it i know exist.

I do see EngRope/AllGear showing these Ultra slings used with their "bull rope floating anchor" (sewn ring xring prusik). Aside from rigging off a prusik & that whole scenario, if you look at their last configuration at the bottom of the picture, it looks to be a rather odd setup. Looks like it would want to invert the pocket into itself when heavily loaded. (Have to see it to understand what I'm referencing) https://engrope.com/shop/industries/arborist/bull-rope-floating-anchor/
I think it would be interesting to see some numbers/results on rigging prusik's like this used on larger or doubled cordage like an ultra. Do they slip? Do they cut? Are they really just a niche, dedicated scenario type of thing? I've seen some really beefy sling setups with rigging prusiks for sale, but have never seen breaking numbers on them. I know what the individual slings are good for by themselves, but not when combined..

Yes your right, there is a lot going on with these Ultras. I've since revised my method over just marking the length of pockets even & creating the brummels. I find that doing it like this you end up with uneven pocket lengths/loading.. My method now includes counting a set # of picks for each side, from the last tuck for each tail. As well as trying to stay more consistent with the pick count between each of those tucks (which on its face sounds 101-ish, but is easy to get overlooked).. In the end, i end up with a very evenly loading result & no pocket legs that look like they may be slightly longer than their parallel counterpart.
 
I don't know if many folks over here have seen this - the Shizll sling. First saw it in France with a tree crew working near the SNCF station we waiting at between trains.
https: //honeybros.com/Item/Shizll_Spidersling
I bought one from HB and last winter made another one (bought another plate and ring) on the workshop splice-o-tronic. I've 'em used on smaller stems, so far only down to about 4". Works great too.
https: //www.shizll.com/product-category/tree-rigging-gear/
 
I've seen them.. I think they look pretty versatile. Id like to know if there is any strength gain by passing a bite through the ring itself & using it that way as opposed to the normal choke configuration.

I also like that they are midline movable, but that's the dead eye fan in me.. it's a hard feature for me to pass on. Last few tools I've spliced, I've been paralyzed making the decision to give it up & go with an ultra style.
 
ghostice said:
I don't know if many folks over here have seen this - the Shizll sling. First saw it in France with a tree crew working near the SNCF station we waiting at between trains.
https: //honeybros.com/Item/Shizll_Spidersling
I bought one from HB and last winter made another one (bought another plate and ring) on the workshop splice-o-tronic. I've 'em used on smaller stems, so far only down to about 4". Works great too.
https: //www.shizll.com/product-category/tree-rigging-gear/
Click to expand...
I have. I bought a shizll plate on a drunken whim a few years ago.
I found that I could use a regular small or extra small rigging plate in exactly the same configuration and get the same performance. Ultimately I figured out that dead eyes get set easier.
 
Dunno about easier, but if you have a tail of anything left that's too long, and you don't want it near running rigging, I find I still end up doing a daisey chain or the round and round thing anyway - so all are kinda the same time to setup? A short sling with pockets and a couple of stubs left still seemed fastest as long as you're not bombing anything big. For bigger I agree, a dead eye (with two rings?) is about the same amount of time and maybe can be fixed tighter. Still experimenting though. Have a great weekend all.

Edit: Just saw this version of how-to splice double ring sling pocket things (good job):
https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnfvuPATjrM
 
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Joeybagodonuts said:
I've seen them.. I think they look pretty versatile. Id like to know if there is any strength gain by passing a bite through the ring itself & using it that way as opposed to the normal choke configuration.

I also like that they are midline movable, but that's the dead eye fan in me.. it's a hard feature for me to pass on. Last few tools I've spliced, I've been paralyzed making the decision to give it up & go with an ultra style.
Click to expand...
I hear ya on the dead eye love. I went through and replaced a lot of stuff with knotless ultras and whoopies, only to begrudge the decision. For me, and it is just my preference, unless the stem is big enough that it's a pain to pass a tail around, I'd rather just tie instead of jacking around with no midline functionality and even then, sometimes a timber is just as handy as trying to adjust a long adjustable sling.

Oh well......more splicing to do to get back on DB dead eyes.
 
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