Safe Use Of Top Handled Chainsaws

M

MrPez

Location
North Wales, United Kingdom
This research project has been out for a while, but nobody seems to know about it - Check it out and post your opinions here!

It can be downloaded free of charge in Acrobat PDF format.

web page

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[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: MrPez ]

[ August 25, 2002: Message edited by: MrPez ]
 
That was a good sunday read . I'm glad to see that they are showing one-handed use and not just saying "Don't ever do this.." right or wrong it's happening all the time .
 
yeah i always got a laugh from that as well. in a perfect world 2 hands are better than 1 but i never seen anybody including myself that wre able to make every cut in every tree they climbed with 2 hands although i try to make a honest effort its still a practice i cant avoid copletely but it is nice to see that somebody reconizes that it cant be avoided every time
 
I don't see any problem with using one hand on the chainsaw. Some of us been doing it so long we might actually hurt ourselves trynig to learn the handed method. I cut a finger once trying to cut two hands and then quickly grab a piece before it fell. I was using one hand on the saw and the other to hold the limb it would have went smooth. I guess stick with what ever works best for you. Just keep plenty of napkins and electrical tape on hand if the unexspected happens.
 
My father always seemed to have his hands bandaged in napkins and electrical tape too.

However, you're lucky to get away with just that using chainsaws, best to avoid the likelyhood altogether. I sometimes use a saw one handed, but never do cut and hold anymore - just too risky to mangle an arm or digit, that I'll probably regret for the rest of my life.
 
I can't speak for others, only myself. But I suspect that I am not the only one here who does a lot of 'grab-n-toss' using one hand on the saw and the other on the limb. I would be nervous as hell WATCHING another climber do this, never mind recommending it on the internet. I watched another climber and friend slice his hand open several years ago because he crossed his hands over when using the 'grab-n-toss' method. I had to drive him to the emergency room to get the hole sewn up.
As I get older, I try to avoid this method. But many times I still use it, especially making small cuts over pool screens, etc. I know I am doing something wrong (unlike when I was younger), but I think each cut through and make sure my free hand and chainsaw are going in different directions. Unlike other methods, the longer I do this the more nervous I get about my safety.I guess you guys are doing your job and making me rethink my actions every day in the trees.
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That was the aim of me posting the link Brian, and I can see you appreciate that - thanks.

I have some simple techniques (UK industry standard)that take a bit of practice, but are very effective at allowing the operator to keep control of the section, without having to use the free hand or a rope: page 33 - para 13.2 with photo 26. The saw bar acts as a wedge to keep the kerf open if the undercut is over done. Photo 26 also gives an idea of how much rain we get around here!

I used this technique on a demo over a nice new college building at the chapter ISA conference- I had some one tell me recently they couldn't believe I repeatedly took the risk of something going wrong, potentially putting a large whole in the new roof! I just wanted to show that it is possible and very smooth.
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[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: MrPez ]

[ August 29, 2002: Message edited by: MrPez ]
 
165, I too practice cut and chuck. However I do not use a chainsaw on the small stuff-instead I use the handsaw. If it is big enough for the chainsaw yet noy to be allowed to fall free it gets a rope/or sling tie off. The only cut & chuck I do with the chainsaw is blocking down the spar-I cut most of the way with the saw, stop break , and drop.
 
This whole post is hilarious, thanks for the laughs.
Know one said the one about attaching your lanyard to the piece, cut it, pull it up and throw. Now that’s a good one!

Imagine all the new-bee’s reading this post. Ahhh Mrs. Johnson, Billy cut his wrist open and died on the job site today, hm, sorry?
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Well maybe we can all be 100% politically correct and NEVER admit to any shortcuts we may take, or discuss any alternatives. We can just keep doing what we do in secret, while spouting the PC line. Then in 10 years we will all be wearing full body harnesses and heve triple interlocking triggers on our battery operated saws where we need both hands and one elbow on the saw to run it. I'd rather be HONEST about doing what it takes to get the job done, and how to make rational decisions when you are in the tree and need to cut that 1" limb over the pool screen (without making a 15 minute project out of it).
 
Absolutely Brian.

As for using the lanyard Greenman, it should be attaching you to the tree (in many circumstances) to prevent a swing out on a limb or protect a fall if the lifeline is accidentally cut (which happens in difficult positions/dense trees). I use an endless sling instead that doubles as a foot stirrup.
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Well gentlemen At this point I think we agree to disagree. My reasons for not discussing the validly of one handed saw use are not to hide my head in the sand, Brian. I have heard the same argument for not wearing a hardhat in the tree and I don’t think any one will pipe off about that. I do feel a responsibility to climbers who watch me climb. Several years ago I was doing a removal (just a cut and drop) and next door there was a new-bee doing a smaller removal for a different tree co. The race was on, so wielding my 019 I attacked the tree finishing up by dropping the spar wood in 7-10 ft pieces notch, back cut while pushing over, smooth, smoked them, as we cleaned up the beaver hut I had created with my race we saw the commotion, you guessed it he had cut him self across the chest doing his removal in the same manner as I had done.

I now use only a med saw in the tree because if I bring a top handled saw up I can’t help but use it one handed and can’t afford that pic.

Pez the lanyard at all times when cutting is a great idea, it may prevent you from falling but not from cutting your self.

But seriously this is only my opinion, and it is ok to agree to disagree.

So please do not jump down my throat for my opinion

thanks Tony Sackett
 
I think the top handled saw debate will rage on for years to come, it has been mentioned in previous postings that what most of us are concerned about is what we teach the new recruits - what they see us do in the tree is generally what they will copy (Do as i say not as i do). General arguements in the UK in regard to one handed use of top handled saws generally stem from the speed of the job, it has been discussed on UK web forums that if the profession can be recognisied by the public for the job that it actual is, and not what they think it is (Uk customers) topping, lopping and yelping from high angles. We would actually be able to charge a realistic price for the work we undertake, we would therefore be able to slow down operations and encourage staff to use saws 'correctly' - if i can use that term. An interesting topic with some very interesting postings, i think all we can hope for is those that use saws one handed do so in the safest manner possible, back themselves up with the use of lanyards etc, and continue to climb, scar free for years to come.
 
I get the feeling that the top handled saw may not be with us for much longer (in the UK at any case) now we have the MS200 - a rear handled version of the MS 200T / 020T. Has anyone used this saw at all? How does it compare with its top handled relative?

I think once my 020T has worn out, I'd be switching to the rear handled version. After nearly removing a finger early on in my career trying to keep up with more experienced colleagues using "grab and toss" methods, I never use any power saw one handed. Also, I'd have another saw that's available for use on the ground (here, safety legislation fobids top handled saw use on the ground).
 
I don't think that the top handled saws will ever be banned outright, there has obviously been concerns raised over the use of top handled and that was the purpose of the 2001 report, in regard to the MS200 - all in all it is a very good saw, once it has ben run and and tweeked to the correct settings it proves to be a very good saw especially in the case of medium take downs, with the spacing that is provided betewn the two handles, it makes for an easier life when it comes to step cuts and the placing of gob cuts. I have found that 90% of students do prefer the newer saw, and obviously the saw can be used on the ground yet tends to lack the neccessary grunt to work through the larger timber, i am still of the personal opinion that every arborist shaould cary a pruning saw to finish those back cuts when in closer proximity to the operator, or for the undertaking of smaller cuts. It also means that there is no need to carry a knife with a retractable balde (FASTCo 401). In regard to legislation forbiding the use of tope handled saws on the ground you are right, obviously there is a requirement for the enforecment of this policy - HSE? NPTC? or LANTRA? Who will make the move?
 
I've never seen anyone attack a tree with a 019 , that saw is junk . Also the o19 is not a very easy saw to hold with one hand . The old mini Macs ( Homlites) you could balance that on your finger , the old 020 was a little heavier than the 020t , but it was a bear . I've seen a lot of good climbers , old retired , Bartlett , Davey , My dad's company , every tree guy I know for years and to this day I've never heard of anyone slicing thier wrist . I've seen a lot of hand saw cuts though . So all you new bees reading this , don't be afraid to reach out and cut . Cut it , hold it chuck it , don't cut yourself .
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Just don't sit in the tree for a half an hour lowering out a six ounce stub .
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I once took a guy to the emergency room because he 1 handed a cut when using a chainsaw. He was trying to control the limb he was cutting with the other hand. Yes, fear 1 handing
with a chainsaw if needing to control a limb with the other hand.

Joe
 
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