Rigging Prusiks & Endless loops

[Jimmycrackcorn]

How are y'all making these in 1/2 & larger without making them unuseable for prusik use on anything smaller than 3/4 - 7/8 Slings..

When splicing a x ring, triple thimble or whatever into the cordage most directions want a shit ton of cordage buried in there.. However but doing so, the entire assemble become super hard & almost as big as 3/4in. Then when you try to do a 6wrap or bigger, it just doesn't want to wrap...

When your splicing the to ends into each other, are you doing any core removal before hand? Like possibly removal directly at the splice & then tapering to the end of the buried tail?

It's like on one hand you need the deep bury like the instructions state, but in the other hand that deep long bury makes it unuseable.

I tried to make a shorter one last night & it just pulled apart on me after burying.. & today i doubled the bury which increased the length to something i couldn't use & even if it was shorter it was too stiff & fat to wrap itself & hold the rope..

I know this is doable as ive seen one in action.

What I'm trying to splice into a ring is a triple thimble. I want to use it on a ring & ring as the a prusik.
Like this..

 

[evo]

I really don’t understand your frustration with this. 3/8 tenex or 1/2 inch depending on your loads. Remember your using the whole thing in a basket configuration so the prussic side is getting 50% of the load. The the prussic it’s self is in a basket which is getting another 50/50 load share.
I’d use the next size or two down from the parent sling material. Estimate length needed add some extra.
Next in the middle of the cordage locking Brummel a eye with the ring.
Next locking brummel 60% measured from the center to the tail.
Now where the tail exits measure a short fid and remove 50% if using tenex remove one strand from each around the circumference.
Burry the remainder along the entire length back to the center, cut excess at 45 degrees.

Yes the cordage fluffs up. Remember tenex 3/8 requires something close to a foot if it’s a straight burry, if locking brummel is used you can do something like 3-4 inches. The Brummel takes nearly all the load and the burry is just something to do with the tail. (Measurements are from the bar and my memory) just follow the instructions. Or better yet if you don’t have a good understanding of splicing just pay someone to do it for you.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Fuck that.. i aint paying ppl to do this shit.. not being defensive.. just saying..

My frustrations are with.. how do i say it.. the loose terms thrown around.. knowing when it's ok to deviate from manufacturers instructions & seeing it done on the regular, but with vauge explaination or none at all..

Loose terms as in, idk who but someone told me to use a locking Brummel before the buries.. i literally sat for hours trying to find a way to make a locking Brummel out of those two ends when in reality you can't.. but because i know one of the two styles can slip out, i thought there was no way the non locking would be recommended.. so i kept looking & looking. There is a way, but you need more than two ends.

Also... Talking bout manufacturer instruction.. if i had gone with them on this thing it would be utterly useless for what i am trying to do.. trust me .. one time around i did go by their instruction just to see if it would help, i ended up with a ten wrap prussik that would barley flex..

So.. what do i do.. seeing as it this brummel doesn't lock can i really cheat on the bury but a significant amount as well as removed enough core to flatten it out a bit?? & If so is the core going to stay together in there? But even so, I'm using 5/8.. a fid = 13in so i couldnt go that that short considering the directions were asking for 3 fids buried each side when not using a brummel....

The problem isn't that i don't know what the manufacturer wants.. trust me, I've read these freaking things through & through, scoured this sites' search feature for days.. for what I'm trying to do with the material I'm using, I've come up with two examples.. neither end up short enough for what i want. There's plenty of shorter E2E examples but not many loops at all, not with explainations anyways..

Also, just a side note here.. I'm trying to splice a notch triple thimble, not that rig ring you may have saw with that Trex.. so I'm not sure 3/8 is a solution on that.. other stuff.. yeah for sure.. but for this it's too skimpy.. Now, because of bulk in the wraps, I ended up settling in 1/2 & I'm kinda uneasy about it.. but it does rate pretty high @ 13500. Im throwing this out there now as I'm not sure if i mentioned that before or if I even posted the end results.. I got interrupted a few times today trying to respond on here.

So, the brummel thing.. your saying when you have a locking Brummel in play, you can cheat a tapered & reduced bury down to 4 inches with 3/8ths? This i did not know.. i understand the brummel takes the weight, but I've been under the impression that these 12 stands come unravel inside rather easy & that maintaining the correct length is paramount to keeing that from happening under heavy load.

If that is a wives tale & if 5/8ths required three 13in fid lengths , how short can you cheat that with a non locking brummel in place?

Below is what i came up with in the end.. im pretty sure it's going to be ok. I went long on the bury as if i had no Brummel, but i really tapered it back towards the splice pretty close but far enough away that it would not enter into the lock stiching... by doing so dropped the bulk significantly & allowed it to be wrapped alot more fluid.. not like fighting a boa constrictor with the fully buried 5/8ths.

 

[evo]

Sorry bro, but it’s a simple splice. And yes you can lock the brummels. The ones I made exceeded manufacture splicing spec’s meaning the tail burry is actually much longer, to keep the diameter consistent.

Start slow and simple when leaning to splice, understand how shit goes together and then you can understand what limits can be pushed.

Good luck sounds like you need it

 

[evo]

Ok Re reading you post.
It’s not cheating to shorten the burry if you do a locking Brummel first. That’s how the splice is done!

Second you can do a locking Brummel on the two legs creating a loop. Take one pass it through, take the other and pass it through going towards the center of the loop. Burry tails. Easy preezy, no fancy crap like raveling and re-braiding.

Now for the structure of the ring to ring your making. Your over complicated, backwards from ideal. Three hole thinngy goes on the end, retrieval on the prussic. Not going to go into all the reasons why. But please just trust it’s the best way.

No offense but if you feel like you have to cheat and shorten splices and all this extra whipping and stitching to keep it together your f-n up. Axe that and start over and do it right.

I don’t really care to take the time order rope and post photos as step by step instructions. I got two kids to tend to, a business to run, and jd3000 to talk shit to.

Get a book, two or more. Splice up some dog leashes. Get a great understanding for it and go from there.

 

[Jehinten]

Start slow and simple when leaning to splice, understand how shit goes together and then you can understand what limits can be pushed.

@Jimmycrackcorn I've got to agree with Evo on this, I've seen several of your splicing post and I realize you are new at it, but you've been jumping all around from one construction to another and trying to modify specs from the beginning it seems like. A few of your post have shown that you do not fully trust all of your splices.
You might be best off slowing it down a bit and getting comfortable with a certain splice before moving on to a more challenging one. I was essentially forced to practice on a hollow 12 strand since I bought a bag of rope when I first started splicing that came with over 400' of 3/8 12strand. It was helpful in getting the fundamentals down, and you can actually make some useful light rigging gear out of it. I then moved onto a couple of double braid rigging lines. I haven't had any of my splices break tested, but they all felt good and have been used in the field. I would trust my splices for climbing, but I don't splice my climb line.

I've mentioned to you before that I consider myself a beginer/novice splicer, so I certainly do not know it all. Just don't want you to be questioning that splice as your finishing a back cut on a rigged piece.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Ok Re reading you post.
It’s not cheating to shorten the burry if you do a locking Brummel first. That’s how the splice is done!

I'll just respond to these two for now as it's late & I'm pretty busted..

So here your telling me it's not cheating to do this, but below you say i am by shortening splices in the similar manner & adding a quick whip to the middle.. You lost me there bud.. ( the two different directions i was following called for both, figured it couldn't hurt, right? Just looks silly, i get it.. but i aint trying to impress here..)

I think what's being missed here & mistaken for incompetence or something else is.. 1. I'm trying to create a 22-24in loop with 5/8.. that in itself probably isn't ideal as the amount of bury "required" is actually much longer than the finished product. 2. That & it becomes very thick at that point, I'm mearly trying to find a way to make it work & thin it out, like the one i saw.. maybe his Tenex-Tec works better in that scenario than the Trex or Optimus I'm using. Idk.. I just know I've seen it work just fine for what i need & what i have now will do exactly that as long as what i did to the bury was ok..

Second you can do a locking Brummel on the two legs creating a loop. Take one pass it through, take the other and pass it through going towards the center of the loop. Burry tails. Easy preezy, no fancy crap like raveling and re-braiding.

Ok.. I'm going to go at it again.. i have some right here in front of me.. but I'm just saying, there are no end to end "Locking Brummel" instructions using two tails on the internet.. anywhere.. That & the place i spoke to told me the same.. I'm not telling you your wrong.. I'm just saying i haven't seen it done in an actual Locking fashion. Are you taking about a lock stitch splice? I think that's what i keep ending up with.

However, I'm going to sit down right now and mind fuck it some more..lol..


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[Jimmycrackcorn]

@Jimmycrackcorn I've got to agree with Evo on this, I've seen several of your splicing post and I realize you are new at it, but you've been jumping all around from one construction to another and trying to modify specs from the beginning it seems like. A few of your post have shown that you do not fully trust all of your splices.
You might be best off slowing it down a bit and getting comfortable with a certain splice before moving on to a more challenging one. I was essentially forced to practice on a hollow 12 strand since I bought a bag of rope when I first started splicing that came with over 400' of 3/8 12strand. It was helpful in getting the fundamentals down, and you can actually make some useful light rigging gear out of it. I then moved onto a couple of double braid rigging lines. I haven't had any of my splices break tested, but they all felt good and have been used in the field. I would trust my splices for climbing, but I don't splice my climb line.

I've mentioned to you before that I consider myself a beginer/novice splicer, so I certainly do not know it all. Just don't want you to be questioning that splice as your finishing a back cut on a rigged piece.

Yes.. i questioned a few of them especially in there beginning.... & Yes.. I'm all over the fucking place guy.. I'm a mad man & idle hands are a devil's workshop!

The ice tail.. did the same thing as this thing is doing, wicked fat wicked stiff.. however during that time i was not aware it was ok to shorten the buries to the extent everyone else was shortening them to.. i was going purley by the book or reading between the lines on similar materials.. however the book wants ten feet of cordage.. yet i don't see anyone else following those rules.. so i need to figure out how their doing it.. Hence the questions... Also, The search feature doesn't work very well for me here.. i keep coming up with the same shit over & over..

Either way..
I figured out how to splice on Tachyon i did that shit for three straight days until i was satisfied.. so hollow braid is rather just a speed bump to me.. it's just a matter of when there is no dedicated Instructions for certain things i get a bit jammed up & I'll do the same tool two or three times over until i get it right..

Lol.. i think y'all are just getting bombarded with all my questions, as novice as they may sound in certain aspects, I'm looking for exact answers that don't have a set standard.. so i ask them ten different ways, ten different times hoping for a better result.. i do man.. my girl tells me this all the time.. i go crazy with the fucking questions & have to know how shit works.

Also.. alot of the stuff i try to come up with is also s compromise.. or a kill two birds with one stone type of deal.. it works for me but may not make sense to you type of thing.. Ya kno?

I think you know what I'm trying to make here though, right J? It's in those videos on the Notch Thimble Thread..

Again.. two birds with one stone..I want to use a rig saver as the base for it.. hence i don't want to splice this thing onto a dead eye or on the end like Evo was suggesting.. i essentially can get three different uses out of it by doing it this way.. it's just the 5/8 isn't working out so i did it in 1/2..

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[Jehinten]

If your having trouble with keeping your prussik short enough to get a 6 wrap hitch, why not make it longer and have the legs longer? Basically push that extra length here at the arrow, instead of forcing more wraps. You can always slide the prussik up further on the host rope to get the thimble where you want it.

 

[Jehinten]

Yea I see what your trying to do. Personally the dead eye works for me, but it may not be best for you.

And don't take my response as "I don't want to hear anymore questions!" I'll answer any questions that I have the answers to, I'm just encouraging more repetitions to build confidence in your work.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

You gotta be fucking kidding me.. i swear i just did what came apart on me last night as well as what the splicing place told me couldn't be done!


Either this Optimus is really tight & gritty.... I fucked up right off the bat last night.... Or that place i spoke to today was talking about something completely different.. because this peice aint coming apart..



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[Jimmycrackcorn]

If your having trouble with keeping your prussik short enough to get a 6 wrap hitch, why not make it longer and have the legs longer? Basically push that extra length here at the arrow, instead of forcing more wraps. You can always slide the prussik up further on the host rope to get the thimble where you want it.

Your looking at the 8 wraps? Originally it was so fat that it needed more than 6 to make enough contact to grab..

It was also how Atetech it however you spell his name had his.. so although not traditional with 8 wraps, i was trying to follow it to the "T" as i expected issues with the girth to begin with..

Yea I see what your trying to do. Personally the dead eye works for me, but it may not be best for you.

And don't take my response as "I don't want to hear anymore questions!" I'll answer any questions that I have the answers to, I'm just encouraging more repetitions to build confidence in your work.

(Not blowing up at you Jehinten..) but....
You gotta be fucking kidding me..!!! I swear i just did what came apart on me last night as well as what the splicing place told me couldn't be done!


Either this Optimus is really tight & gritty.... I fucked up right off the bat last night.... Or that place i spoke to today was talking about something completely different.. because this peice aint coming apart..

Pretty freaking irritated right now.. i need that some of those cheesy Yosemite Sam mud flaps.. "Back Off".. hahaha..

But yeah.. you did yours on a dead eye right? You ever try it with a Prusik Rig Ring?

I swear on everything i own, this exact splice was pulling out last night.. yet i can't now.

 

[Jehinten]

I have not tried mine on a prussic, I have tried many slings in the past trying out whoopies and loopies and in the end I have found that I prefer to be able to move my rigging around without having to unthread the rigging rope. I do still use the rig-saver which is a ring to ring, but other than that I tie the rest of my slings in a dead eye.

If I had to guess, your previous attempt you may have done that splice incorrectly by brummeling the same strand back and forth, instead of alternating strands through each other. I have caught myself doing that before, its an easy mistake if you get distracted.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

That is right though? It's not just super tight on me? (Btw, Optimus is alot stiffer than Tenex-Tec or Trex) Yeah.. it's gotta be right..

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why that guy told me it was not possible.. he is really hard to communicate with though.. its like there's a language barrier even though he's English.. i try not to be scatter brained with him & even if I'm clear.. he never has any idea what I'm referencing, he has answers, just never any idea what I'm talking about.. His boss though.. is great with help.. i swear the guy reads my mind & has answers before i can figure out how to explain it in a simple form.

Yes.. attatchability.. that is the whole reason why i didn't just do a readyWhoopie. As simple as it is, you have to undo everything.. I am going to make a dead eye this week with something.. idk what.. probably a Rig Ring.. just for a simple redirect at the bottom for the groundie..

I've never used these rings before.. I've only made one tool with a ring in it & it's coming out & going into a rig saver.. despite their names.. do the rings add any sort of significant friction? This is something i never heard anyone talk about.. i hear about redirecting, rope radius, heat..etc.. but i never heard anyone talking about adding them to increase friction... Obviously they have more than a pully.. but.. if i wanted to avoid personally purchasing a portawrap for a bit, would it be benifitial to add a second xring to the basal device/dead eye.. like a double head instead of a single? Just in the name of more surface area?

 

[Jehinten]

they fall in between natural crotch and a block for added friction. It isn't a great deal of friction, but with the triple thimble and a ring or two you may not need a porta wrap. That is really a case by case scenario depending on how big of pieces you take out.

If your just now starting to use rings, and you do not have a porta wrap for use with a block, how have you applied friction in the past?

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

they fall in between natural crotch and a block for added friction. It isn't a great deal of friction, but with the triple thimble and a ring or two you may not need a porta wrap. That is really a case by case scenario depending on how big of pieces you take out.

If your just now starting to use rings, and you do not have a porta wrap for use with a block, how have you applied friction in the past?

Oh ok.. that's cool.. id say it's worth it then..

In the past..? How was it applied? Unicorn Horns & Magic rings..lol
Nah.. Mostly all Natural or Porta..

But yes, the triple thimble was only intended for light medium use in my book. That's why i bought a Safebloc too.. you see when I'm on my own i never know who I'll have for help.. so i figured if these things truly can perform as advertised it one less thing i have to worry about down below.. it's why i chose to buy the Safebloc & Thimble over one or the other & a porta. Maybe it was a bad move for the time being..idk.. i just know both are advertised as not needing a porta within reason so i figured i could do without for a bit. I can always borrow one too if i have too.

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