Rig or chunk

KevinS

KevinS

Branched out member
Location
ontario
I tend to rig more then the rest of the guys at work.
I was working with the boss the other day taking down some cedars, the boss scalped, topped, chunked down firewood size pieces he says things go smoother with manageable sized pieces.

I on the other hand used a sling in the neighbouring tree, retrivable from the ground so there was no re climbing. I took out a top and 3 10' logs so a 40' tree in 4 pieces using the winch to get the logs to the chipper.

I find I leave the lawns less chewed up especially in the wetter weather.

What do you guys tend to do or prefer?
 
my co worker prefers to chunk things down and cut and chuck, either climbing or in the bucket. its not my place to say how he should do it, but i know I prefer to rig stuff. bigger cuts, less fuel, less man-handling material, less walking and stacking for the groundsmen, etc..
granted it takes a sec to set up, where as he just starts knifing stuff off, but i think its worth it. i see him grabbing his wrists and elbows sometimes, sore from shock loading his arms holding on to stuff he's cutting.
 
With me it depends what I have to work with. One of the companies I occasionally climb for, its all hand work, either carting out wood or hand dragging brush, so I will take pieces that can be handled by one guy just to keep things going smoothly. On the contrary, the company I work for full time, almost every job we go to we bring along a mini excavator, either a cat 303 or bobcat e45 with grapple, and in that case, I will take pieces as big as I can so the machine can work as efficient as possible (easier to grab one 20' top and stuff it in the chipper as opposed to a few bundles of 10' branches and wood which composed that same top). As to whether I will let them bomb or rig them, its a matter of the DZ. If I can get away with crashing logs and tops to the ground and cleanup isnt as big an issue ill let stuff fly. But if we can save an hour of cleaning up dents in the grass and piles of broken leaves and sticks then i will rig almost everything. The few minutes of setting up rigging and redirects will come out at the end with saved time for clean up.

-Steven
 
x2. It varies from job to job. We use the mini as well so where possible the pieces come down big enough. I usually do rough estimates on the weight, length and height to get sense of what he can take in one piece, whether or not I can lay the piece flat to minimize damage (my groundie has a knack for working the tag line such that we get the lay we want. If the drop zone is super tight and we can't damage anything it's rigging all the way.
 
Here we will rig most of the time. I have to agree that chunking a lot of smaller pieces does leave a lot of divots to repair. The extra time spent rigging saves a lot of time in turf repair.
 
KevinS said:
I tend to rig more then the rest of the guys at work.
I was working with the boss the other day taking down some cedars, the boss scalped, topped, chunked down firewood size pieces he says things go smoother with manageable sized pieces.

I on the other hand used a sling in the neighbouring tree, retrivable from the ground so there was no re climbing. I took out a top and 3 10' logs so a 40' tree in 4 pieces using the winch to get the logs to the chipper.

I find I leave the lawns less chewed up especially in the wetter weather.

What do you guys tend to do or prefer?
Click to expand...

I absolutely despise chunking small pieces, might do it once or twice a year. I remember having to do it last year and stating out loud to co-worker climber, "I HATE THIS !"

But to each their own and some people should probably ALWAYS chunk off little pieces.
 
Chunking leaves you with firewood. With a mini we can drop bigger pieces. This provides us with useable logs that go for milling. We have taken more of a salvaging approach to our wood.
 
Let the tools do the work. Go as big as crew/space/gear/tree condition allow. None of the terra-firma surface operation engineers I work with enjoy chasing 1,000 tiny pieces. They LOVE receiving everything in one, and even say it makes their job more interesting than chasing sticks.

One thing that drives me absolutely guano is when a climber/bucket operator starts handsawing sprouts or cutting limbs off a section that will be rigged out and put into a chipper. My goal is to leave as much of the tree in tact so it can be moved more efficiently.

Rigging takes more time to set up than slinging a chainsaw around like mad, but the economy of motion over time adds up by the end of the day.

Another thing I think about is potential for "struck-by" injury. When you rig, the ground operators are engaged and managing the sections as they come out, while the climber/bucket operator is beginning to prep for the next section, rather than people trying desperately to get in and out of the DZ while wood is raining down. There is far more opportunity for communication due to less cutting, and far less tangled mess on the ground to muck with. I feel it's safer in a production environment to work this way.

I don't want to put my nose up at anyone, because cut/chuck has its place (once in a blue moon), but I thought of it like this just the other day... You ever HEAR a job happening from a distance? Imagine the difference between quiet time with a saw cut here and there vs. a saw barking mad for hours and a chipper screaming away with nothing in the throat.

Do what's right for the job, but lean towards rigging and try to improve your gear and skills as you go.
 
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I like rigging down as big as I think is safe. For me, sawing in the tree is quite a bit less efficient and more awkward than cutting on the ground. Also the ground crew can take a bit of heat off the climber by doing more sawing.
 
Other factors include the size of the crew, competencies on the ground, drop zone, access to the chipper, etc... No sense is laying a huge section because it can be only to overwhelm the groundspeople and leave them fighting to cut the piece up and get it out.

For me, it becomes part of the interest of the work. truly assessing the "arc of the job" to determine the best way to dismantle the tree. We've climbed and dismantled trees when there been a large enough area to fell. The advantage was reducing the distance material had to be moved to get to the chipper or trailer for big wood. The area that needed to be cleaned up was minimized and pieces came down without overwhelming the crew with a mass of brush to work through. Time, energy, productivity, efficiency. All these aspects need to be accounted for in planning.
 
i dont understand the "need" for more and more rigging gear. I used to block, pulley, or ring n ring everything. the only time i do this anymore is to reduce friction for the ground crew during winching operations or for setting rigging where i want it instead of where the tree dictates. although i have done some jobs that required every tool in my tool box. the biggest problem is ground riggers. every time i get one trained they quit, get fired, go to jail, move, ore get a better paying easier job.
 
i watched GB's tree climbing series and GG video on the grcs and got some old school training from a 65 year old twenty five year ground rigger vet plus my years as an ironworker/rigger and now have my own theory on tree rigging try not to laugh keep it simple small is efficient big is efficient old school is efficient free fall everything possible and as bigggggg as possible who cares about yard damage unless the client does if the client cares then don't leave a divot rig everything small and man power everything the client might be impressed if it doesn't take you two weeks if the client in normal and expects a couple of eggs to be broken while making an omelet then bomb it out big and rig sooooooo big it has to be cut into the drop zone but not the dreaded to big if you need to go tooo biggggg try to guy the tree and cut from the bucket try and make the ground men think if you have special needs or green ground men pretend the client loves their yard like its one of their children more repetition=better training also try to cripple the crotches for the ground guys before you airmail it to them this speeds up a lot of process time and it the piece tries to hang up something normally rips off this tip also works well with a crane on occasion use these tips wisely especially the last one no punctuation to make you think and reread what I'm saying
 
sherwood7 said:
There is an art to cutting and chucking(or just letting pieces fly) just like rigging. You have to know how to do both safely and efficiently. There is a time and place for each.
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Agreed. The environment you are working in almost makes the choice for you. I used to be in the cities(Boston, Denver, Portland) ...much more rigging. Letting big wood fly on driveways and asphalt is a no-no. Large, deep Divots in well manicured lawns is usually not acceptable as well. Or letting chunks of wood bounce into city streets while working a tree on the side of the main road.

Currently, I'm back in my hometown in more of a country setting. I can let some serious wood fly here I'll tell you. And people have the kind of properties where, "what the heck is a few divots?" Just as Sherwood said, there is a time and place for both.
 
KevinS said:
I tend to rig more then the rest of the guys at work.
I was working with the boss the other day taking down some cedars, the boss scalped, topped, chunked down firewood size pieces he says things go smoother with manageable sized pieces.

I on the other hand used a sling in the neighbouring tree, retrivable from the ground so there was no re climbing. I took out a top and 3 10' logs so a 40' tree in 4 pieces using the winch to get the logs to the chipper.

I find I leave the lawns less chewed up especially in the wetter weather.

What do you guys tend to do or prefer?
Click to expand...
KevinS said:
I tend to rig more then the rest of the guys at work.
I was working with the boss the other day taking down some cedars, the boss scalped, topped, chunked down firewood size pieces he says things go smoother with manageable sized pieces.

I on the other hand used a sling in the neighbouring tree, retrivable from the ground so there was no re climbing. I took out a top and 3 10' logs so a 40' tree in 4 pieces using the winch to get the logs to the chipper.

I find I leave the lawns less chewed up especially in the wetter weather.

What do you guys tend to do or prefer?
Click to expand...
Get a new boss . Or be your own .
 
Riggs said:
Get a new boss . Or be your own .
Click to expand...
Not trying to hijack my own thread but, how and why did you guys decide to make the switch to self employed and run your own company, rather than sit tight and work for the boss where you are? Assuming the boss is an ok guy and you have no problem working for him.
 
I let my side business determine when to go full time into my own business and i regret it everyday.... LOL now its not about how much money i make but how much i save.
 
KevinS said:
Not trying to hijack my own thread but, how and why did you guys decide to make the switch to self employed and run your own company, rather than sit tight and work for the boss where you are? Assuming the boss is an ok guy and you have no problem working for him.
Click to expand...

Buy your boss out (since I am acquanted with you both......and you've more career ahead of you then he)

Bosses don't do everything right, but alot of knowledge is available from their history of mistakes. Buy in for 10-20% now and work to acquire at least 50% by the time he's ready to retire then buy it all.

20% of a company with $1,000,000 in sales is loads better than 100% of a company with $75k in sales (first year assumption). This strategy would save you lots of building agony and provide mentorship.
 
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