removing broken branches, before winter

[dspacio]

Removing breaks and pruning in an Elm, I was told to leave extra wood, cut 6" beyond branch collar, anticipating freezing weather. I hadn't heard this before nor remember reading about it.
tree is pruned regularly, I have been there twice this year. Maybe the plan is to remove stubs after winter, I am not sure.
Is anyone else following this practice?

I am mainly always using the pruning cut shown by Shigo. Sometimes leaving extra beyond collar to allow sprouts, or further heading cuts. Leaving just 6 or 8 inches tends to rot and fall apart in my observation.

I am thinking now as well about the aspects of heading cuts, after breaks. When to try and when to remove whole branch.

 

[Jonny]

Never heard of it. Tree is getting cold and dormant now, I’d be comfortable giving it proper collar cuts.

 

[Treezybreez]

Elms tend to have branch collars that extend beyond that of most species. I wonder if the powers that be are just trying to protect the collar?

 

[Chris Schultz]

Not 100% sure, but I have heard in species that don’t compartmentalize well, but need significant sized branch/s removed, the practice is to do it incrementally over many seasons(the singular branch)….. that would require a lot of planning, foresight, and patience. I believe the speaker at “What Trees Think of Pruning” at TCIA touched on this.

 

[flushcut]

Subordinate is the term I’ve heard. Generally used with codoms to develop a branch collar. But I have never heard about leaving a 6” stub in elms.

 

[Njdelaney]

I've heard of doing this with the intention of coming back to remove the stub once we're firmly into cold weather for Elms and Oaks. The stub creates a little delay to a potential invader in a situation where a branch needs removing immediately. I believe @Brocky mentioned something along these lines.

 

[Toomuchsawdust]

I suppose it's a lot better than cutting too short. Trees drop limbs and leave 6" splintered stubs all the time. Is it best? Probably not. Is it harmful? Probably not.

Nothing's ever 100% with trees, and I think they can tolerate a lot more than Arborists give them credit for, but a lot less than your average asshole "tree cutter" gives them credit for.

 

[moss]

I've been getting consistent feedback to leave a very generous stub on large limbs to promote compartmentalization and reduce the chance of fungal penetration to the main trunk. Elms are super tricky due to the potentially fatal attraction of beetles carrying Dutch Elm Disease to fresh cut wood. It could be that leaving the longer stub provides extra assurance that the stub is fully compartmentalized by late spring /early summer when the beetles are flying again. Bark beetles in general (there are many exceptions) are attracted from great distances by following scent molecules downwind from freshly broken or cut wood.
-AJ

 

[Chris Schultz]

Nothing's ever 100% with trees, and I think they can tolerate a lot more than Arborists give them credit for, but a lot less than your average asshole "tree cutter" gives them credit for.

I need this on the back of business cards.

 

[dspacio]

Thanks folks. My understanding is the same. The tree is definitely getting good care. I was sent up with a small spray bottle of alcohol to disinfect my saws between cuts. The tree definitely has disease but it's a mature and healthy-looking tree.
Somedays it's about vertical, this tree work was horizontal. Ways to reach 30' away from the trunk without snapping anything
Hopefully I will visit again. Although that crew is getting a lift just for tip work like this.

Thanks again. I am going to stick with my Shigo approach, yet also realizing cutting more distant is better than cutting into the collar.

 

[evo]

Elms tend to have branch collars that extend beyond that of most species. I wonder if the powers that be are just trying to protect the collar?

I know next to nothing about elms specifically, I’ve only been a few of them. But if I had to guess this is the answer I’d give as well.

 

[moss]

More open grown American Elm get crazy wide crowns with monster horizontal-curving leaders, pretty interesting to climb! Not good in the wet, the bark is like a sponge. I hope the tree does well, typically once Dutch Elm disease gets into the wood they die quickly and fall apart fast unless some systemic anti-fungal treatment is administered early.
-AJ

 

[Treezybreez]

Dead Red Elm is one of the only dead trees that I feel comfortable climbing (with spikes on a removal of course).

 

[moss]

Dead Red Elm is one of the only dead trees that I feel comfortable climbing (with spikes on a removal of course).

I'm out of range for Ulmus rubra in eastern Massachusetts, as far as I know I've never seen it. I'm guessing it's wood properties are close to American elm, but maybe not? My experience with elm is that after the tree dies it rots and falls apart much quicker than say any oak species. For that matter even white pine can stand for decades after it dies. Maybe that has more to do with Dutch Elm Disease than with the properties of American elm.
-AJ

 

[dspacio]

This tree does have touch of the disease and has been getting treated. It doesn't look stressed, in terms of sprouting, but it did have about 3 major breaks (4-5" thick limbs). was some big winds though.
It's growing just how you describe @moss . I hit a home run by using a central SRT system and running a MRS helper on outside of the crown above the work, set twice for two areas.

the wood was very strong. Individual fiber strength beyond any tree I can remember. It grabbed my chainsaw on the first cut of the day just from leaving ~5/8" between down cut and bottom cut on branch. Dropping stuff with the Silky, I could count each fiber letting go before the things would give.

Hope that tree does well. It's blessed to be on property of folks who love the tree and will do anything for it.