negative rigging directly onto portawrap

[Treetopflyer]

I've never tried this ,it was touched on in another thread. If I have big wood low on the spar to stop from hitting targets I have always used a block in tree and pow or in tighter conditions two blocks , portawraps.I like two sometimes cause the redundancy is a good feeling as well it can keep the piece from spinning if its not straight up and down. I'm curious if anybody can help me pick out any definite advantages and limitations and share and experiences chunking directly onto portawrap in the tree. All thoughts as always are much appreciated!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Have you read the threads about the "overhead lowering device system" or "OLDS"?

 

[Treetopflyer]

Not yet ,but I will now , thanks Tom!

 

[Treetopflyer]

I read through the thread about olds that is a good design for tree rigging the belay spool that is .Gave me some good thoughts about negative rigging onto friction device as I should have titled this thread . Rope coming off the pow in mid action could be a problem ,but snubbing it off should fix that issue with plenty of wraps. Lots of stress over a short piece of rope isn't a positive attribute. What am I missing here. I can't think anymore tonight.Mentally drained and that's when accidents happen

 

[Treetopflyer]

Have you read the threads about the "overhead lowering device system" or "OLDS"?

Any more thoughts on the subject Tom , I'm fishing for answers and not getting any bites!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

You already know that I like having a rigging point/FD in the tree. Using a bollard in the tree, upside down, is risky. If a turn of rope jumps off the friction will change dramatically, in a never-good way! Using the OLDS/Belay Spool, or some device with cheek plates or a way of capturing the rope is the only way I'd rig.

The limit is that the spring pins are positioned to accept half inch line. When we used 9/16" double braid there was a bit too much friction to let the loads run smooth, especially on lighter loads. I don't know this for sure but I'm guessing if you talked to Carroll Basset he'd move the holes for the pins. There would be an up-charge for the custom work. You could probably find a machine shop to do the drilling though. The bollard is stainless.

 

[Treetopflyer]

Due to the volume of responses I will probably stick to what I know . Maybe experiment in tree with no targets to worry about and see what happens. I just hate stressing equipment unnecessarily.

 

[MikePowers321]

Treetop, what are you trying to do exactly? Is this an idea to make things faster for you? Ground man still going to lower the piece or are you thinking about locking it off and lowering it yourself? Just trying to pick your brain.

 

[Treetopflyer]

Maybe I could hold the rope , not a necessity, just a possibility.
Faster only if the ground can just untie the rope, take away the log whatever then go back to clean up and I keep going until next time its thier turn.
Just had some ridiculous takedowns in ridiculous locations and at the end with fat chunks near sheds, garages ,viynl fences it gets demanding ,you know. I'm looking for a way to keep it safe and keep it moving . To present an instance it may be a applicable ,theres been spots where the ground holding rope on porty below had to be in some weird places to stay safe , around the corner rope rubbing on sheds/whatever ,or be in a tight area where if there was an equipment failure and the log gets loose who knows what could happen. I don't know. Just a thought.

 

[MikePowers321]

Maybe I could hold the rope , not a necessity, just a possibility.

I think more rope in the system is good for energy absorption. And I like keeping the groundie in the action because I know it makes tree work a bit more fun that way (at least for me it was).

However, I could see it as a useful technique if say...your working with only one another guy and when your lowering the wood, it gives him an opportunity to pull the wood away from the tree or onto the log dolly, etc. I bet it would work.

 

[TreeLogic]

Treetop, what are you trying to do exactly? Is this an idea to make things faster for you? Ground man still going to lower the piece or are you thinking about locking it off and lowering it yourself? Just trying to pick your brain.

I think the reason it was mentioned in another thread, was when the negative blocking/rigging got so close to the ground that there was a chance the next piece would hit the ground before being snatched by the rig line, the user would take the Porta from the base of the tree and trade it with his block, then rig right off the porta, just underneath the next cut. The intention was that it shortened the rope in the system and logs that were dropping 6-8' before being caught by the line were then dropping only 2-3' before catching. If that makes sense.

 

[MikePowers321]

I see

 

[RopeShield]

Belay spool is my first choice. Rack I've yet to try but I am sure it will work fine. X has something in the works.. porti don't think so

 

[TreeLogic]

BTW, first time I've heard of it. Sounds a little risky to me but I'm still curious if it'd help and could be done safely. I mean, you'd obviously be shortening your log sections at that point anyway...or at least I would. Or I'd be building a landing pad or figuring out a way to hand the rip-cut logs off to someone on a ladder.

 

[Treetopflyer]

Maybe I could hold the rope , not a necessity, just a possibility.
Faster only if the ground can just untie the rope, take away the log whatever then go back to clean up and I keep going until next time its thier turn.
Just had some ridiculous takedowns in ridiculous locations and at the end with fat chunks near sheds, garages ,viynl fences it gets demanding ,you know. I'm looking for a way to keep it safe and keep it moving . To present an instance it may be a applicable ,theres been spots where the ground holding rope on porty below had to be in some weird places to stay safe , around the corner rope rubbing on sheds/whatever ,or be in a tight area where if there was an equipment failure and the log gets loose who knows what could happen. I don't know. Just a thought.

 

[Treetopflyer]

Energy absorption is good and reduction if possible. No block, oversized rope in relation to piece weight, on porty wrapped five times snubbed off , any thoughts.

 

[Treetopflyer]

Wait hold the phone !. I figured it out ! You call the crane !

 

[ROYCE]

Another major advantage to rigging off the porta wrap directly, is the tree does not experience double the weight of the piece. I have used this scenario a few times when I was worried about tree stability. Thats the joy of tree work too, you can pick which size piece you cut, usually. I used the porta strapped to the tree and took smaller sections. Worked great. Of course my preferred method is to lower with a block and have the ground man run the porta wrap. But, it's another trick in the bag!

 

[Treetopflyer]

Another major advantage to rigging off the porta wrap directly, is the tree does not experience double the weight of the piece. I have used this scenario a few times when I was worried about tree stability. Thats the joy of tree work too, you can pick which size piece you cut, usually. I used the porta strapped to the tree and took smaller sections. Worked great. Of course my preferred method is to lower with a block and have the ground man run the porta wrap. But, it's another trick in the bag!

Yeah even a one foot section of oak can wiegh a couple hundred pounds if its 24" diameter or bigger. One foot is short. I don't like cutting em like that with a rope on them if I can help it,after all its probably been a long day already at the point were talking . Targets do take a part to dictate the size though I reckon. The trees' structure stability doesn't worry me so much, if it could handle a bulk of mass swaying in the wind above it , when I'm down to the last twenty or feet or less if it can't handle a few hundred pounds rocking it even double force over block, I better get a crane . You must've been dealing with a very rotton tree or some other lack of structural integretity for you concern to be raised there doubling over a block that is ,I don't know the situation, no matter really. Are you holding the rope in the situation you're using it in ? Just snubbing it off then untying and lowering yourself?

 

[ROYCE]

I used the technique on a pine tree that had to have a top lowered out. There was a defect about halfway up the tree where a co-dominent stem had pealed out. I had to club above the defect and remove the remaining top. Worked good. I considered it good because I am still around to talk about it.