ITCC Rules

Mark Chisholm

Mark Chisholm

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Hello all. I am just wondering how the rules that are currently used at the ITCC go over with all of you. This is a very imortant topic to me and I hope that I will hear some serious replies on the matter. This event is an important part of the industries future and I feel that it needs to continue to advance.

One feeling that I personally have is that: If the Master's Challenge will continue to exist as it does now (being a winner take all/ sudden death event) then I feel that either there should be a judge from each of the four chapters that have climbers advancing to the finale, or there should be n o judges from any of the chapters that will be represented. How does this sound to you?
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This is the procedure at the olympics.

I would also like to see the Master's scores posted publically with the judges names next to the score that they logged. (also done at the olympics) It helps to ease peoples minds and keep the event on track. Anyone?
 
I'm with you Mark.
Every year the ITCC gets bigger and more professional. Not only do we have more skilled climbers every year but more judges with experience.
Posting the way the climbs hashed out would be fantastic. In my experience in judging and being judged, there is a good deal of personal opinion of what is hot and what is not.
It seems that part of having a good Masters climb is knowing what your judges like to see. Example, do they see a big swing as great or reckless?
I think the ITCC has some challenges to face as it grows.
I look forward to seeing some great cllimbing in two weeks.
You da Man Mark!
 
Thanks for the input Dan. And thanks for the support. I just read your other post and am very disappointed. I'm sorry to hear that the home town favorite will not be able to climb. I know that there is no place that you would rather be those days then up in the trees with your fellow climbers.

It is great to hear that you still have your great personality in tact, though. I will be looking for you when I get in. Heal up quick!
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I don't feel the ITCC rules has much effect on me or most us who use this sight. It only effects those who are lucky and skilled enough to make it that far. However it should be fair. I like idea of having judges of those who placed. I am wondering how is it that the ITCC is important to our industry? I just thought it was for fun.
 
I'm sorry Big Jon, but I disagree strongly here! The competition itself is one of two events that have totally changed my life as it pertains to tree care. I've read some of your posts and realize that you have had the ability to experience some of the latest advances in equipment and technique. Where did you learn it?

The ITCC was the most important event that I have ever been exposed to that shaped my outlook on saftey. Tradeshows (TCI EXPO) are also to credit here, but the competition forces climbers to learn what will be acceptable and safe as well as what would get you DQ'd. So many advances in safety have been born and spread due to the competition.

It has also encouraged me to try to learn my own new ways to achieve my goals. New techniques that I have learned on my own were originally thought of to help me to win the NJTCC or the ITCC.

Have you ever performed an aerial rescue before wanting to compete? Many have not. It has definitely become more mainstream since the first climbing championship.

Networking is also a great bennefit from these meetings. I can't even begin to list the friends that I now have all over the world that I would never have meet were it not for these conferences.

Even on the home front, here in Jersey, I have met some of the most influential friends to date. If I looked back to the pre-comp. days in my career (13 years now) my whole approach to tree care was different. Not much is still the same, except that it is still hard work.

I hope that this makes some sense? For me- it is thoughtless! It is very important to the industry. I would strongly reccomend to anyone out there who has never been to a conference or tradeshow related to their work, GO! It will change your life forever!
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[ July 14, 2002: Message edited by: MARK CHISHOLM ]
 
you make some good points mark, maybe when you win again this year you will have enough pull to start a groundman comp.
 
Well put Mark!
Even before I had ever heard of climbing competitions. I loved the way every tree job had to be uniquely figured out. What rigging ideas could we think up to get the job done. Arborist have to be pretty crafty to handle some of the situations they find themselves in.

The competitions exposed me to more people who have been living and breathing tree work. People who are constantly working on their bag of tricks. This sparked me to start learning at an excelerated rate.

Allmost everyone I have had the plessure to work with in my 19 years of tree work thought very little of spending their weekend competing with other climbers and even less of spending afternoons or weekends climbing for free. But everyone loves it when things go like clockwork and difficult removals look easy. Even old dogs learn new tricks when they see it saving time and backs.

I have been reading a lot lately about student competitions held by the SSA, NAA, and the ACRT. I have a feeling the next generation of arborist coming up will be very knowledged in all kinds of climbing and rigging techniques as well as good safty habits. I shake my head at the bad safty habits that were considered perfectly acceptable risks when I got started.

Ropgod mentioned groundman competitions. In Australia, they had a event where a group of three would back up a truck and chipper through a S curve of cones, to a pile of brush, and set up for chipping, Safely.
In Hawaii, they have an event where a groundman holds a load line. A roughly 80lb hunk of wood is pushed out of a crotch about 20 feet up and 30 feet from a target on the ground. The ropeman has to let it drop so it lands at the right spot without rolling. Closest to the pin wins.

The more enthusiastic people, that get involved in competitions and other climbing events, the greater the possibilities.

Some Canadians told me they play games of tag and rally in the trees. This is wild, just having it described to me expanded the walls of my 'what is tree climbing' box.

As they say "the skys the limit"
Dan.
 
Mark, I am not saying the TCC isn't important. I really love the whole thing. I am jus saying who wins isn't as important. This was my first year to compete. I took it pretty laid back. Didn't have much choice since I blew my knee out only 5 days before my first meet. My biggest problem is that where I compete they don't let us watch the other climbers' climb. How is we pick up anything if we are the last to go? Also I was thinking we should have a "free style" for all to watch. No rules, all our gear should meet the minimum requirements and thats it. The way it is set up it works agaisnt you to try something new. As for where I learn most of what I know, I learn it here, magazines, Jim Roach and just playing around. Anyway I agree with you. I wish you luck, Maybe you too can be a 3 time National Champion.
 
I agree totally, Big Jon. Who wins isn't really what it's all about at all. I also see your point about not learning as much due to being sequestered (though that would mean that you were doing well for yourself).

The biggest point that I am trying to make is that I feel extremely blessed for meeting many friends and for learning lots of skills that I picked up directly because I did compete, I did attend or I did watch! I can't even begin to consider where I would be today had I not gotten involved.
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Hey Dan i think around 400'Is the limit.

I went in my first TCC last year ,Aussie chapter it was great, the networking ,competing with the best in the local scene, I learnt heaps.
So much so that we are holding the Tasmanian TCC on the 27th July . We are believing it will do lots to promote the industry while we have heaps of fun too.
Definition: An Arborist is someone we see's large trees in a park as extra play equipment.
 
Judges should be accountable for the way they judge an important event . How many judge the Masters in the ITCC ? maybe to be fair you need more judges at the ITCC Masters .
If it wasn't for the TCC's I would have never known there was trees in Jersey
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and ropegod are you still chasing that second place trophy in the ground man comp ?
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That's great Rob.
You must have met the Kenyon family. They make crocodile Dundee look soft.
If you send a climber from Tasmania he would have to have the nickname Tasmanian Devil.

Speaking of playgrounds, I'm always looking out my car window at big, wide spreading trees. Taking a quick check to see if it has a good central tie in spot, maybe a obvious big swing. Then I make a note to come back in my free time.
Cheers, Dan.
 
Hey Dan,

Re the tree tag, when Frank played it on you, I don't think you knew it was happening. But you sure avoided him pretty darn well!

I wish you were up to a game right now!!

PS, I just happen to have 600 feet of GoldStreak beaming at me, and three other guys lusting after it...ScottDB, Ian, and David ( a cert arb you probably dont know) or Oxman.

Ian took a blow to the forehead (same spot as me) yesterday, and sustained 12 stitches. He was working for Scott of Custom Tree, so I didnt witness it. Scott thinks that the branch he cut, which sprung up into his head, was leaning on another, or was being tensioned down by a branch on top of it. But he didnt witness it either. And Ian is likely not sure what happened either....
 
THATS FUNNY RIGGS. ANY SAT.YOU WANT,WE CAN GO AT IT.(IN A FRIENDLY WAY) MAYBE YOU CAN CATCH A RIDE WITH ROACH AND I'LL LEAVE MY TRACTOR HOME. YOU NEVER KNOW MAYBE THIS MIGHT START SOMETHING?
 
Hey why should we wait for a shceduled event. I think we should have a more private get together for all the members of tree buzz. What do you all think?
 
Glenn ,Rob I'm in I'll be the ref and then take the winner.
As for the ITCC it has changed my whole way of doing treecare I have learned so much in a short time and met alot of people with the same goal as my own .I will always be apart of it in some way or another.Just talking to other climbers who like myself are just trying to find ways to do there job better safer and for a long time,thats what its all about for me that plus shareing what you have learned to others.IT is very important to our industry.

The rules blow.there is still alot of work to be done but I like your idea with the judges Mark.
 
Yeh the rules are tough, all, I did was drop a bit of tape "DISQUALIFIED" from rescue, There goes the rest of the competition.
I missed the masters but it does did seem, as it was reported to me, very subjective.
But I don't think Olimpic Judging can be held up as the best example.
It is a bit Sudden Death but it is great and i am sure it will be improved as long as we keep the vital ingrediant FUN
What TCC do for arboriculture should not be underatted.

Dan
I have met the Kenyons, the are big boys and girls and mean climbers!!
Really Tassie Devils are quite innoxious creatures they just make devilish growling noises at night when they are eating carcases
and fighing.There rep comes from the fact that they even eat the bones.
Apparently two we sent together in a box to a US Zoo but by the time it arrived the box was empty as they had eaten each other.
Can you believe that!!




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In the past few years I've had the opportunity to judge at many chapter TCC and the ITCC too. The other climbers that I've had the opportuinty to judge with have all taken time to agree on what the rules mean on the day of the competition before the climbing starts. There is a rule that talks about "uncontrolled swings." What does that mean? For most of the judges it means any slip that leads to a swing or a swing that is wild or spinning. Sticking the landing is pretty important too.

Not having judges with a bias is pretty hard. We have to trust to their integrity and ability to leave the company shirts in the parking lot. At the ITCC we have to expect that there is no nationalism or chapter bias. Jeff Jepson and I've talked many times about how the TCC is a lot like gymnastics. We competed against each other when we were both in high school and didn't realize that until we got to talking about the "Glory Days" as Springsteen says. If the judge doesn't have the knowledge to know that a technique is safe, it might be judged unsafe and the climber could loose points. Anyone who has ever watched a judged event has witnessed some questionable judging. Let's hope that the judging at the ITCC/TCC never gets so bad that there is a notion of favoritism, positive or negative.

During the last two ITCC's I've set up a log drop event at the Carnival. This is an event that raises money for the Tree Dynamics and Arborist Training Fund. Last year we raised about $380 and had a fun day. The log drop event that I set up simulates a swing drop. A false crotch is hung in the tree. The log is attached to a line and then a snap shackle and a light line is attached to the log. After hoisting the log up it's pulled back off plumb. The lowering line is locked off on a lowering device. When the contestant unwraps the lowering line the snap shackle is pulled allowing the log to swing. Accuracy and time count. Last year Glenn tied with a buddy of mine. We've had some side bets going on and kids giving their hand at the game too.

See you next week!

Tom
 
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