GroundPerson Talk

Good point Devil Dave. You touched upon a subject that I have always felt very strong about. What is a good climber without a good goundman?
The Davey Tree Experts definition of a groundman is, "A common laborer who performs menial tasks." Right out of their Book! Least during my tenour during the 80's. They may have changed by now.
My definition of a groundman comes from a short paragraph entitled, "Working The Hole."

"As a ground man working the hole your duties will include the tending of the lines; pulling, holding and lowering. You will also have to clear the hole so more work can come down, an arduous task in tight quarters. You'll have to refuel, sharpen and maintain the power saws. You'll use knots and fasteners, and you may even be required to do some "on the spot splicing" to keep the job going. You'll be in the position to call how large a cut the climber takes, and the climber will be relying on your good judgment to manage it after it has been cut loose. Working the hole can be fun and exciting, but it can also be difficult and dangerous. To keep it safe, remember to have a good plan, adequate tooling and training in the prodedures of working the hole."

Page 27, "The fundamentals of General Tree Work.

I've known people that had not the nerve to climb, but were excelent ground men. Un surpassed in their ability to think ahead of the climbers' needs.
 
Hey jer, good to see you in here.

This is a good topic.As Jerry said , " what good is a climber whithout a good ground man". Hmmmmm ...not much. I touched on this subject in another part of this site, and in so many words this is what I said.

A good groundman can make a climber look bad or good. And a good climber can make the groundman look the same .Until these two can think alike, you'll always have a sluggish crew. It's like a band playing together. When thier out of tune or off beat, the the people know it. However, when thier all insink with each other, music is being made .

Have a good one

Greg Liu: PS hey Jerry, not to long till March , cant wait!
 
Its good to see I got a response. Sometimes ground guys are looked down on and what has been said about teamwork hits the nail right on the head. A crew is only as good as all its parts.
 
Here's a groundman requirement that is often over looked: Navy pilots call it "situational awareness." The ability to keep track of many tasks and activities at one time. Not only must a groundman assist the climber he or she must also keep bystanders safe, chainsaws full etc. Good "situational awareness" allows a groundman to be two or three steps ahead of the whole crew. This is always a plus.
 
now that we agree that groundmen are almost as important as climbers, and i say almost because without climbers we would not have much to do. like fuel up saws so they can take a brake and get all their gear that they forget or just don't bring to the tree. don't get me wrong not all of them are like that, and i've worked with plenty of both kinds, so why don't we get a competition like the climbers have so we can show just how good we are.
 
careful for what you wish for ... most good climbers I know are good ground men too !
blush.gif


[ February 25, 2002: Message edited by: Riggs ]
 
roachy, i've given this alot of thought for a couple of years. some of the events would be running ropes,(lowering a log into a target and hinging a log off a stick to see how much the stick rocks) setting a climbers line(you would have to have a safe crotch and a good one for the climber to enter the tree and work it from that point).setting a pully in the tree from ground. moving different sized logs over a set distance. if you or anyone has any ideas i would love to hear them some day maybe we can have this happen. riggs: i would love the challenge to go up against any climber for my fellow groundmen. when is the next crane job !!!!!
 
I have never climbed trees like Jerry B. has but I owe all my knowledge to being a groundman first. At the age of 10 I was put to work by my father and as I look back at all the times I dulled out saws or shook the oldmans eyeballs out by not letting a limb run in the rope I laugh. Now I run the buisness and a well trained crew is worth everything to me I allways make time to teach or answer any questions to the best of my knowledge.
 
Great subject and lots of good replies.

I don't mean to start any flames or be blamed for Politically Correct Police in here, but...ground "men/guys". How about adopting a new name for the ground workers?

Groundie
Groundzy
Grounder
Ground worker

I use groundie. There is probably no climber that didn't start their career on the ground. Somtimes those climbers turn into prima donas and think that they are "better" than the ground crew. Not on my crew. Rakes fit into everyone's hands. We're all a team, everyone earns and deserves respect beause of how they work not by what their job description is.

Tom
 
not to start anything, but if some one called me groundie or one of those other dumb names ,1 i would not answer them until they got the idea ,2 i would must likly call them a couple of good names that if any of you know me you know what i mean .it's GROUDMEN OR GROUNDPERSON where ever i work .or for that matter where ever i'm standing. do you guys only have 1 name for climbers? i sure don't!!!!!
 
Good message, Tom. I agree. Working the ground is essential. I often hear people say that without the climbers the ground crew wouldn't have a job. Well, sort of, but a car won't drive down the road very well without its tires or an engine...

A productive- functional tree crew needs all of the major components in order to produce. You cannot compare who is more important than whom. You should, as Tom mentioned, judge workers by how well they work. It is way more productive to have a fantastic climber paired with an incredible ground worker, rather than two "so-so" climbers or a couple of "O.K." ground men/women.

Another great point Tom made is how many climbers think that the work in the air is somehow superior to working on the ground. It's really only another aspect of tree work or another learned task, much like learning to grind stumps or bid work. Maybe there is something to be commended on, that is, for learning a new task. But nothing worse then not working to your potential-consistently! Prima dona is not a compliment in my book.

It isn't so much the title you hold but how well you hold it!
rolleyes.gif


[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: MARK CHISHOLM ]
 
The best part of Subbing for me is working with lots of different groundmen , it makes life real interesting . Now , I don't consider myself a Prima Dona , but I haven't cleaned up brush in a long time . It's not my job . I'll cut wood , because I like it , but as far as chipping , dragging , lifting raking , I did my time . On a positive note , the last Arbor DAy at Arlington Cemetery , I pruned 1 Poplar and raked and stacked brush all day .
wink.gif
 
I think that any good climber and any good groundman, who truly understand each others
positions, will never look down apon what thier job is. Even though thier may be, differences between the two.They understand the value that each plays in the part.
 
Yo fool , if I get paid to do the aerial work , and aerial work alone regardless of who is on the ground what is your point ? Granted Ground people are needed and some are more experienced than others but , if my "job" is too get things on the ground so "the Ground Crew" can handle it , what's wrong with that ? I did my job . Some times I bring a "ropegod" with me , and he only touches my rope and gear .
cool.gif
 
Riggs, hey, no need to get rude, I was just making a general statement to some paragraphs above. I do a lot of aerial work myself and a lot of climbing as well.If thats the way you work , so be it. I'm not here to critisize anybodies methodes or work habbits.
 
SO RIGGS, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO CALL ON MY SERIVES? I AGREE SOME PEOPLE DO GET PAID TO GET THE TREE ON THE GROUND AND SOME PEOPLE DON'T.I JUST CAN'T STAND CLIMBERS WHO JUST KEEP GOING AND NOT LET THE GROUND PEOPLE IN TO GET SOME BRUSH.AND WHEN THERE DONE JUST STAND THERE AND SAY LOOK HOW FAST I AM.I WILL BE THE FIRST TO SAY I MADE A VERY BIG MISTAKE WHEN I FIRST STARTED IN TREE WORK. I TOLD TWO CLIMBERS (ALL YOU DO IS MAKE A MESS FOR ME TO CLEAN WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO DO WHAT I HAVE TO DO ALL DAY YOU HAVE IT E-Z!!!)THEN I WAS SET STRIAGHT THE NEXT DAY WHEN WE GOT TO THE JOB I WAS HANDED A SADDLE AND A ROPE , LETS JUST SAY I HAVE CLIMDED 4 TREES IN 11YEARS AND IT WAS 3 TO MANY .I THINK IF YOU DO YOUR JOB (THE ONE YOU GET PAID FOR NOT JUST CLIMBING OR CHIPPING )THEN YOU ARE BOTH JUST AS IMPORTANT.
 
This is silly,its all about knowing your role.No one piece is better than the other .I climb drag brush rake whatever!I may have two or more climbers on my crew for a day we all dont climb at once we share the load that goes for the ground work as well.
In Riggs case he is a sub thats his job thats what he is there to do ,climb bucket work etc.this is his role and not to drag brush.I know Glenn pretty well and he's never shy about helping out.
A great groundperson in my mind as as much an asset as a great climber and the two togeather can be poetry.But they are just as hard to come by as good climbers.Most of us work with brush experts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom