Felling with the limbs attached

monkeylove

monkeylove

Been here much more than a while
Location
Roslyn, Pa.
So there is probably a reason so I'm going to ask. Assumption is that there is plenty of room and such.

Why do you guys (I do it now too) remove the limbs before felling the tree. Is it about control? Is it about safety or less of when limbing on thd ground? Is it about less possible ground damage? Less flying limbs when the tree hits the ground? Better work flow with a ground crew staying busy? All of the above to some extent.

Thanks.
 
If I have the room I'm droppin' tree limbs and all.

A wise man once told me the faster you turn a climbing job into a ground job the better it is for everyone. It's an extra body on the ground to help out. For the most part I find there is less ground damage when leaving the limbs on as they act as a sort of shock absorber. Sure, you get the odd lawn dart, but that's still better than the massive divot a spar creates.
 
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Most of the time to me, its "What will stop me from felling this tree whole?" next question: "can whatever is stopping me be moved?" if i cant fell it, then its "can someone start gassing up my top handle?
if protecting the lawn is that big of a deal, it'll be in my work order notes to NOT fell the tree.
 
I start with can I fell it safely? Will felling it be more efficient/productive? Sometimes the only place to fell it will create more work than it saves. The job in my avatar was one where we could have felled it but the damage to the underbrush (a native restoration planting some 12 yrs old.) would've meant a lot of work undone.

As for price, its' about the value of the work not the cost. There have been jobs where the salesperson saw it as being climbed and rigged and I've been able to fell it and finish in less time than estimated. That's a win for us. The value was in the knowledge and experience brought to the job. We don't give that away.
 
Completely agree treehumper. I've had multiple jobs where salesman says must be climbed. Few polesaw cuts later and a basal prune and its on the ground. Just last weekend I did a job where we could have tipped in the woods but topped it out to avoid dragging brush up a ravine (firewood stayed). We also saved quote a few young trees which the customer greatly appreciated
 
All very good suggestions! I like the catch phrases too.

Safety and collateral damages are the first filters I run a removal through. The fewer cuts made in the air the safer the job. When I learned about technical rigging using a Hobb's Device in 1986 Don Blair shared an axiom of sorts. By rigging one piece rather than chunking/bombing eight we've reduced the climber's risk of injury a LOT.

this is probably a common thing, but I didn't learn it until I'd been climbing for over ten years.

A few undercuts/snap cuts/partial cuts on a standing tree reduces damage and keeps control of the way a tree collapses in the same way that building demolition collapses a structure unto itself.
 
Okay so it is acceptable. In the park the only thing I am felling is so dead that it's to dangerous to climb or the lean is so bad the root ball is exposed, also to dangerous for me to climb. if any of them are to tall to drop and I can find other nearby tips I will do 2 tie ins and fly around the tree. Only using my lanyard when the saw is running and I need the extra support. I'm a huge fan of dropping the whole tree and limbing it on the ground when possible. Thanks guys.
 
I'm sure the parks department will appreciate your increase in productivity ;) . also hanging trees can greatly reduce clean up for the crews.
 
On a few occasions though the customers wanted a discount because "less" was done. Outcome is the same, tree is gone. Customer wants to see a show to feel the value. I try to have my salesman never provide a length of time the job will take. We do however go into detail at time of estimate how we will safely dismantle a tree. By explaining the process by means of technicalities or equipment will sometimes be the deciding factor on the customer choosing us for the job. If done a different way than what the customer was told, they have in the past, used that against us. I normally tell the customer no discount but I had one SOB that got away with paying us a few hundred less. Something to think about....
 
Got to know the client's level of willingness to accept collateral damage to their lawns or understory that will be affected. That sets the limits on the "how".
 
monkeylove said:
So there is probably a reason so I'm going to ask. Assumption is that there is plenty of room and such.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Production, safety, control. Sometimes, there is less distance to drag brush and haul wood when a tree is stripped out. If a tree has a lean, limbs can be removed to alter it's center of gravity. Huge trees are easier and safer to clean up when large limbs are removed 1st. One doesn't want to be on the ground next to a huge tree if it rolls when limbing it.

Joe
 
We had a "potential" client tell us at an estimate that they weren't going to use the tree company they used last time because they ripped him off. He said they charged me $400 for the removal of 5 trees and it only took them 15 minutes a tree. Anyway it was something like that... I just don't understand how people can agree to a price for the job and then think they were cheated because the crew brought, let's say, a dozen guys, a chipper, a bucket truck, and a loader, and a so on and so forth, or even without any of that...and then with their experience and skill got the job done quickly...why do the clients think they can change the contract or think they were cheated when they had to agree to that price for that job.
That wasn't exactly someone you feel comfortable working for.

Now, on the question of felling with or without limbs...everyone has already said it all, but I will just make it simple:
"If it makes sense to drop the tree, do it.";)
 
John_KAYS said:
We had a "potential" client tell us at an estimate that they weren't going to use the tree company they used last time because they ripped him off. He said they charged me $400 for the removal of 5 trees and it only took them 15 minutes a tree. Anyway it was something like that... I just don't understand how people can agree to a price for the job and then think they were cheated because the crew brought, let's say, a dozen guys, a chipper, a bucket truck, and a loader, and a so on and so forth, or even without any of that...and then with their experience and skill got the job done quickly...why do the clients think they can change the contract or think they were cheated when they had to agree to that price for that job.
That wasn't exactly someone you feel comfortable working for.

Now, on the question of felling with or without limbs...everyone has already said it all, but I will just make it simple:
"If it makes sense to drop the tree, do it.";)
Click to expand...
I have been there. I explained to the customer, I could have billed you by the hour, left the skid steer at home and brought the 9" chipper instead of the 19" and you would have seen us work twice as long.
 
If you'd rather hire the local idiot with a pickup and a chainsaw, who has no idea what he's doing and it takes him 3 days to remove a simple tree (or possibly put it thru your house) then you should have called him. But you wanted an experienced, well equipped professional, which is why you called me. And since I know what I'm doing and I showed up with a quarter million dollars of equipment, I need to be compensated for it.

And like everyone else already said, I'll flop any tree that I can, so long as the risk isn't too great or it doesn't make more work for us in the long run.
 
John_KAYS said:
We had a "potential" client tell us at an estimate that they weren't going to use the tree company they used last time because they ripped him off. He said they charged me $400 for the removal of 5 trees and it only took them 15 minutes a tree.
Click to expand...
Probably because the only 2 metrics that he had to gauge the value of the work were time and money. That's a common mistake. The client needs to understand beforehand what the value is in hiring you.
 
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